~ Or attended and want to revisit the great information shared?

We’re excited to share the recording of our June Parent Group presentation, “Anxious Brains and Tools That Help,” featuring pediatrician Dr. Jennifer Dilts.

In this engaging discussion, Dr. Dilts explores the powerful connection between ADHD and anxiety, helping parents better understand:

• Why anxiety and ADHD so often occur together

• How anxious brains process situations differently

• The role of avoidance and reassurance in anxiety

• Practical coping tools that help children manage stress and worry

• Strategies for supporting emotional regulation at home

• Evidence-based treatments for anxiety, including cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT)

• How ADHD and anxiety symptoms can overlap—and what that means for treatment

Parents especially appreciated Dr. Dilts’ practical, compassionate approach to helping children build confidence, resilience, and coping skills while navigating both ADHD and anxiety.

Watch or Listen Your Way

You can access this presentation in whichever format works best for you:

▶️ Watch the recording right here in our newsletter

📖 Read along with the transcript below

▶️ Watch on our ADHDKC YouTube channel

🎧 Listen as a podcast on your favorite podcast platform - look for ADHD KC Conversations

Whether you’re folding laundry, commuting, taking a walk, or sitting down with a cup of coffee, you can learn at your own pace.

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The more connected you stay, the more tools, support, and community you’ll have on your ADHD journey.

We hope you’ll enjoy this valuable conversation and share it with another parent who could benefit from understanding the ADHD–anxiety connection.

Resources & Dr. Dilts Information

• Meg Foundation - megfoundationforpain.org

• Dr. Dilts’ website - drjenniferdilts.com

• ADHD Moms Podcast - letstalkkidshealth.org/Podcasts

• Flusterclux Podcast - flusterclux.com

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Group Overview

01:58 Understanding Anxiety and ADHD

04:43 The Nature of Anxiety

07:41 Anxiety in Children and Teens

10:31 Coping Mechanisms for Anxiety

13:23 The Brain and Anxiety

16:40 Avoidance and Its Consequences

19:27 Modeling Coping Strategies

22:30 Words Matter: Validating Emotions

25:38 Normalizing Anxiety

28:28 Practical Tools for Parents

31:31 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

34:26 Modeling Emotions for Kids

38:18 Understanding and Naming Anxiety

42:44 Techniques for Regulating Stress

49:59 Assessing and Treating Anxiety in Children

55:50 Navigating ADHD and Anxiety Together

Transcript

AI generated - excuse the mistakes

speaker (00:00)

Welcome everybody as you’re joining in. Dr. Danda, did you want to introduce yourself since you’re relatively new to the group?

Yes. I’m Caroline Danda and I am a psychologist. and I’ve got three kiddos that all have ADHD in some form. And so I recently joined the board of ADHD KC and very excited to help co-host the parent support group. And

glad to be here because it’s just a I it’s been a long time coming because this has been such a wealth of information. everybody, I’m just gonna go over the since the CHADD agreements here and then I’ll turn it back over to Kristen. just really be kind. Be kind, be respectful. you know, be yourself, don’t try to be anyone else. what we talk about in here, we want to maintain

confidentiality when appropriate. and then we are recording this. So it will go up on the website for people to be able to watch that as well.

But we’re glad everybody is here. We’re super excited for the turnout. And I’ll let Kristen continue on. All right. I make her do the yucky stuff. not really yucky, but just agreements. Not always fun. but I get to talk about things that are up and coming and I’m very excited. We have several great speakers lined up.

Next month will be the Smart Kids Paradox. You know, all of us who have known that kid who’s just not living up to his potential, so smart, but not doing great. Adam Tillove will talk about that. And then Sarah Ketsky will be talking about executive functioning strategies for teens the following month. And I know that will hit right as school is probably about ready to get going and parents are going to want to get their kids set for school. So that’ll be great timing. I also have the CHADD National Event Calendar.

Many of the CHADD chapters like ours will post their online things and you’re welcome to join any of those. And then the new book club that Dr. Danda is co-leading is going on now. The adhdkc.org groups page has a book club group and there’s a forum there that’s discussing chapter by chapter, and they’ll wrap it up at the end on August 6th.

with a Zoom talk about the whole book. So if you want to read ADHD 2 .0 or maybe just listen in on what everybody else who’s reading it is learning, I highly encourage joining that book club.

So Dr. Fer Dr. Fur Doctor Jennifer Dilts is a pediatrician in the Kansas City metro area. She practices with Bloom Pediatrics, which is direct primary care, but she doesn’t do primary care. She focuses on ADHD anxiety and migraines, which don’t sound like they go together, but they really do. And I’m super excited. I’ve gotten to know her really well.

Through multiple channels, and I’m excited to hear her talk tonight about anxiety and ADHD. So I’d love to take it away. Thank you. I am excited to be here. I also now get the honor of co-facilitating with Dr. Stuppy the Teen Group. And so we have a lot of fun each month in the teen ADHD KC group.

So we’re talking today about anxious brains and tools that help.

And as Kristen said, I’m Dr. Jennifer Dilts and I practice at Bloom Pediatrics here in Kansas City. And also as Kristen said, I treat anxiety, ADHD, headaches, migraine, and depression. And then I am also board certified in acupuncture and I do acupuncture for both kids and adults, which is really fun.

The overlap, ‘cause cause as Kristen mentioned, it it seems like kind of a strange mix, but part of the overlap for me, or a big piece of the overlap and why I like treating all these conditions, is because I love teaching kids about their brains and how brains work and giving them tools, demystifying some of this so that they can have agency and feel successful.

And I also, in a strange sort of way, like talking about hard emotions and negative emotions. We all have them. And so I think it’s helpful for our kids when we are able to talk about them and when we feel comfortable talking about them, then they are gonna feel more comfortable bringing up hard things with us. And the other thing that we know is that our kids, whether they’re little kids or teens, are really good at coming up with stories, and we want them to have helpful.

And accurate narratives. And this is really easy to think about for me with ADHD because when a child gets an ADHD diagnosis, then a lot of times they can replace an unhelpful narrative like I’m just stupid or I’m the bad kid with no, I have ADHD. I have a fast brain. It’s harder for my brain to take that pause sometimes.

And so the same thing with anxiety and other hard emotions, we want our kids to be able to understand what’s happening in their brains and how their own brains work so that they have helpful information and they’re not telling themselves other stories that that aren’t as true or aren’t as helpful.

And so today we’re gonna run through how anxious brains work. It’s really interesting to me when I dig into anxiety that whether you’re four years old or 64 years old, whether you’re afraid of spiders or you’re afraid of public speaking, anxious brains tend to behave in predictable ways. And there are things that both for little kids, teens, and adults tend to help anxious brains too. And so we’re going to talk about how anxiety works and

How we can help our kids with negative emotions, including anxiety, and then the most important part, tools that help with anxiety and with other difficult emotions, both for ourselves as parents and for our kids. And it may seem maybe like a little bit of a reach. I don’t know that we’re talking about this in the ADHD parenting group. This isn’t specifically an anxiety group. I also want to say that.

I know Dr. Natasha Berger came and and talked to you all and her book, Managing Childhood Anxiety for Dummies, is a fantastic book. You can go back and watch her presentation that she did for ADHD KC here a few months ago. I watched it and I I think that she and I I think our presentations will go well together. I wanted to make sure I wasn’t repeating for you a lot of the info that she talked about and I I think

They just kind of complement each other nicely. And what we know is that anxiety and ADHD are good friends, depending on which study, which which set of data you you look at,

up to half of kids with and teens with ADHD also have an anxiety disorder. So 25 to 50% is kind of how that shakes out. And that is significantly higher than kids and teens who don’t have ADHD. Their rates of anxiety is more like 2 to 15%, sometimes as high as 25% in teens, depending on again which studies you’re looking at. But what we know is anxiety is super common, just like ADHD.

And if you have one condition, you are more likely to also have that other condition. One of the landmark ADHD studies, the MTA study.

Also found that a third of the kids in that study had anxiety with their ADHD. And one thing that I find just heartbreaking because anxiety is so treatable is that statistic or studies show that about 80% of kids and teens who meet criteria for an anxiety disorder don’t receive treatment. So not only is anxiety super common, just like ADHD is, but a lot of our kids and teens aren’t getting appropriate treatment for it. And we’ll talk about what that appropriate.

treatment as towards the the end of the talk because there are so many things as parents that you all can be doing to to help your kids no matter where they fall kind of on that anxiety spectrum and then there are really good evidence-based therapies for kids who need extra help beyond what you’re providing as parents and

So if we advance my slide. Okay, so this you guys probably know who this is. This is anxiety from the inside out movies. You probably have seen the inside out movies. If not, watch them. They are really good. But I’m gonna have you guys humor me here for a minute. And if you feel comfortable, you can close your eyes and just think about for a few seconds here a time when you yourself felt anxious.

and try to recreate that scenario in your mind as far as where you were, what you were doing.

What the what the room was like, what was being said, if anything. And then think about how that felt to you in your body as far as any kind of physical emotions that that you had in that situation. And any kind of thoughts or narrative that were going through your head.

Okay, thanks for doing that with me. And you can open your eyes now. And anxiety is really normal. We all feel anxious at times. There’s a big spectrum. There are people like my husband who hardly anything gets him above a two out of ten on the anxiety scale. And then there are people like myself that are more just run anxious. And it’s not very hard for me to think of times that I’ve been anxious. what I spend a lot of time talking to.

my patients and their parents about as some anxiety is helpful and some isn’t. And my goal is never to even if I could magically make it so that someone was never anxious again, I wouldn’t want to do that for several reasons. And so I think it’s helpful for everyone to understand that some amount of anxiety is normal and is helpful. And the way I explain this to kids is I actually want you to be a little anxious or nervous when you’re in a parking lot because I want you to pay attention so that you don’t get

hit by a car.

It’s a little bit helpful if I’m nervous before a presentation because that motivates me to prepare for it and practice it. It’s a little helpful if you’re a little nervous before your soccer game because that makes you really alert and ready to go and paying good attention. And so it’s helpful to know that that a little bit of anxiety helps us to perform well. Also, if we never felt anxious, that means we’re never going out of our comfort zones, right? And so we want to be able to take risks, we want to encourage

Our kids to take healthy risks, and so some of that is is going to come with some anxiety. And what I’m always looking for with my patients is I’m I’m asking three questions. Is this anxiety developmentally appropriate? Is it expected for the situation? And is it interfering with things you either want to do or need to do? So developmentally appropriate is pretty easy to understand. There are a lot of things that preschoolers may be anxious about that we don’t still expect.

expect our preteens or teenagers to be anxious about. Like we know that preschoolers they may have a hard time separating from mom or dad, especially at the beginning of a new school year and when school is really new for them. They may be really anxious about the dark.

Or sleeping someplace other than their own home. And as kids get older, we expect that they won’t be as anxious about those things. And so if if I’m seeing a teenager who is still really anxious about going to school every day, that’s a different situation than if we’re dealing with that with a preschooler. Also, is it expected for this situation? Just like we talked about, there are some situations where it’s helpful and

Really expected to be anxious if someone goes through a really scary thing, if if they’re involved in a car accident or

they had a house fire or their parents are separating or something like that. We know that they’re going to be anxious. That’s expected. We’re going to help them through that. But that’s very different than a child who is really, really scared of someone breaking into their home or a car accident when no one that they know has gone through that and they haven’t gone through that. And then the third one and the biggest one is is anxiety interfering with the things you want to do or need to do? And so for our kids, this these are things like school.

and being able to do things with friends and being able to sleep well at night and and those kinds of things. And so if kids are a little anxious with those types of things, but then they’re able to work through that and parents are able to support them through that and they’re able to still do those things and they’re happy most of the time at those things, then that’s not really a kiddo that that I’m too worried about. But we’re we’re more concerned certainly when when anxiety is interfering with those kinds of things.

And so we know anxiety is common. It often starts in preschool years, and the younger the child, the more somatic are body symptoms that they’re probably going to have. And so the younger kids are typically not telling us that they’re anxious or stressed necessarily, but they may be talking about headaches and belly pain and nausea. And so these are really common symptoms of anxiety, as as you all probably know. And these things still happen when we’re

teenagers than when we’re adults as as you probably could think of when I ask you to remember that time you were anxious recently and how that felt in your body.

There are also multiple types of anxiety. It comes in several different flavors. So there is separation anxiety, which just as you probably can can figure out, has to do with when kids are separating from typically their parents and how hard that is for them. Generalized anxiety is a lot of worry about future things that may happen and how other people are thinking about them and and that kind of thing. Panic, again, is gonna be those somatic body symptoms.

school avoidance. I kind of wish it was named something different like school anxiety because a lot of times I these kids are not.

necessarily wanting to avoid school as as their primary intention, but they’re really, really anxious about school. And as we’re gonna talk about, anxious brains really like to avoid. And so it comes out as avoidance when kids are really anxious about going to school. And then the last one is social anxiety. So anxiety about being in groups and talking in public and being around other people.

And like I alluded to earlier, anxious brains behave in really predictable ways. And so the first way that anxious brains or the first thing anxious brains do is we tend to overestimate the chances of something bad happening. And then we tend to underestimate our ability to cope. And so though those two things together is is not a great combo. So what that can look like is if the teacher calls on me in school, I am gonna freeze up, I’m not gonna

Know what to say, I’m not gonna know the answer, and I’m not gonna be able to handle it. I’m gonna have to run out of the room. And so again, this overestimating the risk of bad things happening, whether that’s tornadoes or fires or mom forgetting to pick me up, and then underestimating our ability to handle that situation if it does occur. anxious brings want lots of certainty and reassurance. And you can probably think about examples of of when you’ve had that happen perhaps as a parent where

you you initially for an anxious kid, when they’re asking something, you will give them the answer like, Mom, is there gonna be a tornado tonight? And you’ll say, No, I don’t think so. And the kid will feel better for a few minutes. And then they’ll ask again, Are you sure there’s not gonna be a tornado tonight? No, no, I really don’t think so. and then they’re wanting more and more reassurance. So that that reassurance only helps them for a few minutes and then they’re needing that again and again, and they’re wanting to look at the weather app and they’re wanting to have

all these other ways to to feel safe, but unfortunately that constant reassurance is is not really helping that child to feel more safe or build their coping skills. So we’ll talk about how to handle that here in a little bit.

And then the other thing, and you guys know this, is that anxious brains are not always rational. And so this is the child that she always does well on tests. She is so well prepared. She has studied and studied and studied. She’s never not done well on a test, but she is still worried that this time is going to be the time that she fails the test. Or a preschooler that mom always picks her up from school. She doesn’t have any reason to think that mom’s not going to pick her up today, but she’s still really worried mom is not going to pick her up today.

And this is a picture of me when I was six years old and in first grade. And this is my reminder to talk about anxious brains wanting to avoid. And as you can see, I put the anxious brain to avoid avoidance is short-term relief and long-term yuck. And when I was starting first grade, I was really, really anxious. And I remember my dad, who did not have any training.

And child development or child education or anything like that. But he did something really helpful for me. Instead of letting me skip and go home when I was feeling really anxious, he would walk up and down the hallway with me those first few days of first grade. And he was without really totally understanding the science behind it, he was doing several things. One is this co-regulation that we’ll talk about here in a little bit, where because he was calm, some of that calm kind of rubbed off on me.

And also he was walking back and forth with me. movement can be really helpful when we’re anxious. And he was giving me the time and space to kind of take a breath and have enough time to feel comfortable so that then in a supported way I could do this thing that was hard for me and that this thing that was causing me anxiety, which was going into my first grade classroom. And it is really, really normal as parents when our kids are coming to us and they’re wanting to.

Avoid something we want our kids to be safe and comfortable and feel happy and secure. And so our initial instinct a lot of times is to want to say yes to what they’re asking, right? And so if this is a kid who’s anxious about school, this might look like mom, my tummy hurts. I don’t think I can go to school today. Are you sure? Are you sure you can’t go to school? It could be your anxiety. No, no, I don’t think I can go to school today. And so if this happens once, then initially the mom says, Okay, maybe you’re

Getting sick, we’ll stay home from school. And so what happens? That child feels better, right? That child is so relieved. They do not have to go to school. The parent feels relieved because the child feels better. But as you can probably guess, there the chances of this happening tomorrow and in future school days are really, really high because that child didn’t have to kind of push through that hard thing. They didn’t develop those coping skills, and they didn’t get to work on doing that thing that is hard. They didn’t get to work on doing something.

something when when they’re anxious. And so a lot of times, as some of you may have experienced, when kids want to avoid, they just keep avoiding and avoiding and it becomes a bigger gr bigger thing instead of a smaller thing.

And I’m gonna take you through parts of the brain here for for just a minute. so we have our kind of reptilian brain or brainstem, and this is the part of our brain that is develops first, and sometimes we call this like the lizard brain, and this is what is involved in kind of our autonomic nervous system. So our heart beating and breathing and that kind of thing, the things that we don’t have to think about. And then a little further.

Up here we have the limbic brain. So this is our emotional or our feeling brain. This is where the amygdala lives that’s in charge of emotions. And then this part that’s behind your forehead is the prefrontal cortex, or this is your rational thinking part of the brain. And I think it’s really helpful. Some of you may have seen this before, where you can kind of do the brain like this, where here is like your brainstem, here is your amygdala, your thinking or your feeling part of the brain, and then here is your prefrontal cortex. And we just

Talk a lot in ADHD, especially about how this prefrontal cortex part is developing at least. It was at 7:30, actually, I guess. And so this part of your brain is going to be developing for a really long time. And what we know about anxious brains is that

When we get really anxious, we talked about how rational how emotional, anxious brains aren’t always rational, right? And what happens when you’re in fight or flight is that sometimes we talk about kind of flipping your lid and that this

this rational part of your brain is offline. And so what’s running this show is your amygdala, the emotional part of your brain. And since this part of your brain is developing until your mid twenties, this part of your brain, the emotional part of your brain, is really strong compared to the the thinking logical part of your brain. There’s kind of this mismatch where the emotional part of the brain is so strong. And that’s why so many or at least one of the reasons why so many

anxieties come out in preschool aged kids because they’ve got this really, really strong amygdala, really strong emotional part of the brain, and this prefrontal cortex hasn’t caught up yet. The amygdala and Dr. Burger talks about this in her book, that the amygdala is really active at night. So this is one of the reasons why adults or kids sometimes things feel like a lot bigger deal at night. All of our anxieties tend to come up at night, that amygdala is really working is really active at night.

And of course we can’t think rationally when we’re in fight or flight, right? I do this with the kids where when you’re when you flipped your lid, your parents can tell you all the the right reasons and all this emotional stuff, and you can’t hear it if you’re if you’re in this emotional part of your brain. And so, this is really good from an evolutionary standpoint. If you’ve got a car coming towards you or you’ve got a tiger chasing you, you don’t want to analyze all your options and really have this big thoughtful,

discussion about it or or think about it a lot. You want to run, you want to fight or flight, you want to get out of the way, but fight or flight is not meant to be in for long periods of time. And it’s not great at you know for kids at school, kids that are having school anxiety or or having anxieties about other things that fight or flight isn’t working in our favor in in that situation.

And so this is really helpful, I think, for parents and kids to understand that anxiety feels really overwhelming, especially if you don’t really understand how it works. And what happens with anxiety is it tends to get worse before it gets better. So if you use my example of when I showed you my first grade picture, and when I so

kind of on this part would have been thinking about going to school and getting up that morning and going to school. And then I would have been at this panic peak when I was outside the classroom and I wasn’t wanting to go in and I was feeling really anxious and my dad was walking with me. And then I went in the classroom. I’m still up here at the top.

But after I am in the classroom for a few minutes, I sit down. I start talking to the person next to me. I get involved in whatever’s going on in the classroom. And slowly my anxiety gets better, right? I start going down kind of the the

anxiety hill. same with public speaking. I get really, really anxious before I speak in public and my heart’s beating really fast right before I start speaking. The first few minutes I’m really anxious, but I’ve done this a lot now. And so when I when I get into it, I know that after the first few minutes I’m gonna start calming down and I’m gonna be

through that hard part. And so what we need to help kids understand is that they’ve got to stick it out through this hard part before it gets better. And that’s part of why pushing through that avoidance, that need to avoid is really helpful because if kids are always able to avoid what they’re doing is they’re going up this hill. And then right when it’s getting the hardest is when they’re running back down the hill. That’s when they’re avoiding. And with practice they can learn, I can go over this this

Hill. I can do things even when I’m really anxious because I’ve done it before and I know it gets easier. That’s me with public speaking, right? The first time I did it, maybe I really thought I would pass out, but I’ve done it enough times now that I know yeah, I can ride this out because it’ll get better. All right. One more thing. We know that words order that words matter a lot.

But especially when we’re talking about anxiety, I think and anything mental health related, I think words matter so much. And sometimes in a re in a well-meaning way, we may have used the phrase kind of just anxiety. And I think this feels really invalidating to to kids and not intentionally on our part, but an example of this would be mom, I can’t go to school today, my stomach hurts.

And then the parent may say, I think that’s just your anxiety, honey. You’re gonna be fine. I know you can go to school. And then sometimes when kids don’t feel believed, you know, they have really real belly pain. They have real nausea, they have real headaches. whatever those symptoms are, those are real symptoms. That is their body’s way of handling that anxiety. that’s the way that it’s coming out in the body. It can be a little different for all of us, but instead of just anxiety, I think it’s more helpful.

a lot of times to validate that anxiety and then still move on to what what that child can do supported with that anxiety. And so instead you might say when the child says

My stomach hurts, I can’t go to school. Ugh, it sounds like you might be feeling anxious. That is really hard. I’m sorry you’re feeling anxious. You know what? Do you remember last week when you felt so nervous and your stomach hurt and we were able to go to school? You you had a peppermint and drank some water and we went to school and then you felt better. I think we can do that again. So we’re we’re not saying

it’s just your anxiety. We’re validating that it’s their anxiety and then still going on to something that isn’t avoiding. Another thing, and and we deal with this with ADHD too, of course, that I don’t love that disorder is in the is in the word. anxiety disorder is the medical condition, just like attention deficit disorder is the medical condition.

For for fairly obvious reasons. A lot of times kids don’t kids or teens, they don’t like being told they have a disorder. They don’t want hearing about they don’t like hearing about that disorder. And so even though that’s the medical term, I really try to move more into anxiety condition or your anxiety or your stress or your stress response. Something that feels a little more normalizing because we all have, again, anxiety to some degree.

And the other thing, thankfully, I think we’re getting a little better better at as a as a society, but still have some ways to go, is talking more about mental health instead of mental illness. Just like just like we talk about physical health and we’re working on our physical health, all of us doing these things to support our physical health, we can really be all be working on supporting our mental health, whether we have a significant amount of anxiety or not. So I just thought that was worth mentioning.

And the other thing I I talk a lot about with my my patients and their parents is we all have anxiety. It’s helpful in some situations to have some anxiety and our goal, my goal

So even if I magically could get rid of all of your anxiety, I don’t want your anxiety to be zero because again, I want you to have a little bit of protective anxiety. I want you to have a little bit of anxiety to help you prepare for things that are important to you, like soccer games, like presentations, whatever those things are. And I want you to be going out of your comfort zone and trying new things. And it is part of trying new things to be a little bit nervous. But what we want to do is make sure that anxiety feels manageable so that.

You’re able in a supported way to do these things that still cause some anxiety. And when I think about normalizing anxiety, I kind of have two images that come to mind. So one is this little alien that says, I come in peace and kind of peacefully coexisting with anxiety. And the second is this car analogy. So again, anxiety is part of

our brains and our emotions and we don’t have to completely eliminate it. We don’t have to ignore it. But instead what we want to do is make it a little bit smaller if it’s feeling really big and powerful for a child. And instead of letting it be the driver, we want to put it in the backseat where sometimes anxiety can still can still talk to us, but it it doesn’t, it’s not driving the car. And so I think this can be helpful, a helpful way for kids and parents to kind of think about anxiety.

And we talked about a little bit, avoidance typically isn’t helpful. And so then of course the question is, well, what can I do instead then? And instead, we’re gonna support our kids and help them navigate this anxiety. And so one way for that, and I’m gonna talk about specific examples here in a minute, is modeling for kids, being brave and working through hard emotions like anxiety and then limiting reassurances too. And this can be easier.

said than done, I know, but especially now that we know that anxious brains work this way and that they want lots of certainty and they want reassurance, I think it can be really helpful to when you’re noticing that in your kiddo, especially if it’s a kid that tends to be more on the anxious end of things.

You can say something like, you know what? You already asked me that and I already answered that. So we’re gonna we’re gonna move on to something else. Or sometimes I know parents will say asked and answered if it’s something that their child is kind of repeatedly asking, or we’re gonna get into in a minute, naming your your worry. And so the other thing you can sometimes say is, I think that’s your worry bully talking to you. I I think we’ve we’ve already answered that. So we’re gonna go on to something else, but just limiting those reassurances because even though it may seem like

a a helpful thing when it’s going on and on then it’s not helpful and that child is just focused on continually getting more and more reassurance. And sometimes

You guys may have seen these feeling wheels or emotion wheels. And you can get these on Amazon and other places. My kids are all teenagers now and they would run away if they saw me coming towards them with a with an emotions wheel. But they can be really, really helpful for several reasons. I love the idea of using this. You can obviously use it if your child is upset and they’re having a big emotion. You can help them kind of find where it is on this wheel and name it.

the other thing that’s helpful for though is just modeling emotions and building that emotional vo vocabulary in general. So if you have this on your kitchen table, then maybe a couple nights a week when you guys are eating dinner, everyone goes around and says one emotion they felt that day and and how they kind of dealt with that or what that situation was like. just again kind of modeling for our kids.

That we can feel different emotions and that that’s okay and that we can work. no, make a murder baby. And another thing I I think can be so helpful is talking about kids, modeling times that you felt anxious or nervous or scared or upset or frustrated and how you handled that. We’re gonna do that, of course, in age appropriate ways. but I think we forget sometimes that the kids in our lives, whether those are our kids,

or other kids that were around, they a lot of times think that the adults that they look up to have everything all together. They don’t think that we have have hard things that we struggle with. And so it can be really helpful for us to kind of model that messy middle for our kids and again in age appropriate ways, let them know how we how we deal with things when when we have hard things.

And another way to do this, you guys have have probably some of you have done this probably are highlights and lowlights. You can do this with your kid at dinner, you can do it at the

You can do it before bed. It doesn’t have to be every night. You can do it when you remember. That’s totally fine. And I think as adults, we really an important thing is don’t just ask your kids for their highlights and lowlights, but we really need to to as the adults model our highlights and lowlights too. And again, this can look like I was really sad when at work today this presentation that I’d worked so hard on.

I didn’t feel like people really appreciated how hard I worked on that. Or that could be, you know, I felt really embarrassed because I think I accidentally hurt my friend’s feeling today and I’m gonna go apologize to her. Or again, just so kids kind of understand that even grown-ups have hard feelings and we’re still saying we’re sorry and we’re still disappointed. that’s just such a great way to model that for them and we want

them to be able to come to us and know that we’re not scared of of talking about these negative emotions, including anxiety.

And another thing that can be helpful that I’ve sometimes done with kids, besides just asking kids where they feel anxiety in their body, I do that a lot in visits. I will ask them when you we’ll talk about times that they feel anxious or stressed, whatever word feels best to them, and I’ll say, Where did that how do you feel that in your body? And of course I get kind of this deer in the headlight look, but then we kind of start walking through it and I’m like,

You know, what did your heart feel like? What did your breathing feel like? What did your skin feel like? What did what did your muscles feel like? And it is just helpful, and I think it is especially helpful for our kids with ADHD and especially younger kids to have them start thinking about how anger or

other emotions, anxiety, stress, how those feel in their body, because especially for kids with ADHD and kids with anxiety too, a lot of times it just seems like they go from fine to exploding and there’s no middle ground. And what we’re really wanting to help them get better at, which and it gets better as they get older too, but what we want them to get better at is identifying that feeling when it first starts so that then they can do some of these techniques we’re going to talk about next. But

before they can do those techniques, they a lot of times have to recognize how that’s feeling in their body. So this can be really helpful to draw a picture and they can put where anxiety lives in their body or sadness or happiness or all kinds of emotions you can do that with. And this one at first may seem a little bit surprising, but I love naming anxiety. And I did not come up with this on my own. There’s another book I really like.

And I have some resources at the end for you, but there’s this What to Do When You Worry Too Much workbook that’s for like elementary age kids. It’s by Dr. Don Hubner. She goes through principles from cognitive behavioral therapy, which we’ll talk about here in a minute. But she has that in her book. I know other people do that too, where kids can name their anxiety and even draw what it looks like. And I think this is so smart. And there’s a few reasons why this works. Number one, it gives you a way to talk about this besides just saying my.

Anxiety. It’s more fun if you can name it something, and even more fun if it’s a funny name or the your child draws their anxiety and it looks like a furry monster or something. I’ve seen one example where a kid who was really worried about germs, his his anxiety was named germworm, and it makes it easier to talk about, right? Because then if that kid is asking again and again, is this food gonna make me sick? Are you sure it won’t make me sick? The mom can say, or dad can say, I think.

that’s germ worm talking. I I think he can he can take the back seat right now or just gives you another way to talk about it.

Again, anytime we can use humor, that’s great. So the sillier name or the sillier the anxiety looks, the better. And the other thing this really does is it separates the anxiety. This little furry monster is not me. He’s separate from me. And so that helps kids to be able to get some distance from the anxiety and make it seem a little bit smaller. And

The an another thing I really like to talk to kids and teenagers about is that we have a lot more control over our worry thoughts than we think we do. I tell them I was like 40 years old before I realized that I can control a lot of what I think about. And that if I have some worry thought that’s taking up a lot of space in my brain, I can actually kind of talk back to it or do things that help that thought not to be as big and not be taking over my brain so much. And I say, isn’t it great? You can learn about this.

When you’re eight or twelve, instead of having to wait till you’re forty like I was. And most of these techniques.

are going to be working at getting ourselves and our kid back into the present moment because anxiety is usually not really living in the present moment. It’s a lot of times forward thinking like what if there’s a tornado? What if there’s a car accident? What if the teacher calls on me and I don’t know the answer? All of these kind of what if future things. And then sometimes it’s past looking too, right? my gosh, I think everyone thinks I’m stupid because I said that or I think that friend is is

doesn’t like me anymore because of what happened at school today. So when we can get someone back into this present moment and into what their body feels like, that can be really helpful. And again, using this brain model, if someone is really upset and they’ve flipped their lid and they don’t have their thinking part of the brain working, they’re all in this emotional brain, we want them to get this thinking part back online. So movement can help. This is like when my dad was walking me back and forth in that first grade hallway.

Just that movement can really help. Getting outside, getting a change of scenery can be really helpful. And then there’s also this really cool concept that makes good intuitive sense to us that’s called dyadic co-regulation. And I’m going to read the definition because I just like it so much that what dyadic co-regulation is, is it’s this bi-directional moment-to-moment process where two people jointly manage, modulate, and synchronize their emotions.

emotional, behavioral, and physiologic states. So we can all think of times that we’ve done that. Basically it means we influence our kids and our kids influence us. And just like you can think of times when you walked into a room and someone was really uptight or really angry or upset and that emotion just kind of radiated off of them onto you. You can also think of times when or a friend or someone you really like that just has this really calm, warm, comforting presence

And you just tend to kind of relax and feel really good when you’re around that person. And that’s the same thing we’re continually doing with our kids, right? And sometimes, especially when kids are having really intense emotions, we can intentionally use this co-regulation.

And so this is the good stuff now. some of these are gonna be familiar to you, but I think talking through them is really helpful and you may find a different way to use it or a different one than than what you’ve tried before. I talk a lot with kids, especially teens, about regulating the stress response. Sometimes they don’t want to hear about anxiety and it can feel a little more neutral to talk about, yeah, we all have stress and our bodies respond to stress in predictable ways. And isn’t it cool that there are things we can do to

control that. So the first is belly breathing. the other thing I should say is of course a lot of times kids will tell me, yeah, I tried breathing once, it didn’t work. And

Number one, they probably tried it when they were already upset, right? And it’s not gonna work as well when they’re already in this amped up state and they’ve already flipped their lid. But I tell kids, yeah, you probably weren’t very good at soccer when you first started it. You probably couldn’t play the piano the very first time you sat down. What what got what got you better at those things is you practice, right? And you practice a little bit every day. And even though it sounds weird, it’s the same with breathing. The more you can practice these slow deep breaths at times when you’re calm,

The better it will work for you when you use it at other times. And I tell kids the cool thing about breathing is it’s just breathing. Nobody knows that you’re doing it. So you can do this belly breathing when you’re at school, you can do it on the soccer field, you can do it all different places, but it really works the best. If you practice it every day, build it into your nighttime routine, it can help with good quality sleep and falling asleep. But also if your body associates it with times when you’re calm, like before sleep, then it’s going to

Work so much better when you are doing it other times when you’re feeling kind of stressed or upset. So with belly breathing, it’s really great, especially for little kids, if they put a stuffed animal on their belly. So if they’re laying in bed or on the couch or somewhere and they’ve got a stuffed animal on their tummy, then what they can do is watch that stuffed animal kind of go up and down as they’re breathing. And when we’re stressed and not super relaxed, we breathe up here in our chest, right? And so we’re wanting.

kids to be able to do that slow deep belly breathing. I always think of little babies because you all might remember from when your kids were small, you can just watch their little tummies going up and down a lot of times when they’re really relaxed.

Another breathing technique I really like is cookie breathing. And this one works for a couple of reasons. One is it’s still this deep breathing, so we’ve got that going on. But the other really cool thing about this one is it’s getting a child out of their own head, out of their worry thoughts, and into something that they probably like better because we all like cookies, right? And so with this, you can tell your child, you might even have them close their eyes, and you can say, okay, let’s imagine you just took a cookie.

out of the oven. I want you to really picture what that cookie is. What type of cookie is it? it’s chocolate chip? Okay. And now I want you to think about what that cookie smells like. And you’re gonna do a big breath in and smell that cookie. and that cookie is so hot though. So we’re gonna need to blow on that cookie before you can eat it. It is too hot to eat. And so then you’re gonna guide them through

slowly breathing out. and so again they’re they’re breathing in and they’re smelling the cookie and then they’re breathing out and blowing on the cookie and you’re getting them to imagine with you something that’s more fun than whatever just got them all amped up.

And then the other one that that I’m sure some of you have heard of is 54321. And it’s always hard for me to remember which which sense goes with which number, but honestly, it doesn’t matter. And you could do a variation of it where it’s two things you see and two things you hear and two things you feel or or however you want to do it. But basically you’re just trying to get that kid to get still and really think about.

what they can what they can hear and see and feel and smell and taste. And again, you’re getting them back into that present moment and out of those worry thoughts.

There are some really good stuff online. I love the Meg Foundation. I the volunteer board chair for that group. It’s a great website. It’s Meg Foundation for Pain.org. I have them linked at the end of this in my resources section. But basically what what we do as an organization is we provide a lot of free science backed resources that help with mostly procedural pain and anxiety, so needle sticks, that kind of thing. But also we have some chronic pain stuff, especially

related to headaches. And so they have a good video called Breathing for Comfort with with Super Meg. So you can check that out. There are other good ones online too.

And especially for my older kids, a lot of times I will explain the science of breathing with them. Because again, they’re gonna say, I tried breathing, it doesn’t work, it’s all woo-woo, you’re just saying something that that you think is is gonna help, but it doesn’t really help me. And so a lot of times we’ll talk about how it’s actually a hack of your nervous system. And so I’ll talk to kids about how you’ve got your vagal nerve and it goes down the side of your neck on both sides, and your bagal nerve

Is responsible for activating your parasympathetic nervous system. And you may have heard of your sympathetic nervous system, which is your fight or flight. Sympathetic is a tiger’s chasing me. I gotta run, my heart rate has to go up, I’m really stressed. And your vagal nerve is for your parasympathetic nervous system. That’s the opposite of fight or flight. That’s the rest and digest. And so what’s really cool when you take deep breaths is that you are signaling to your brain and your body that things are okay. You’re getting

out of that emergency part of your brain and back into the calm thinking part of your brain. And again, the plug for it’s much more helpful if you do it every day, practice it regularly, at times you’re not stressed, then it works a whole lot better when you try to do it when you’re starting to feel stressed. And so sometimes explaining it in that way and kind of the science behind it gets more buy-in from our our teens.

And here’s another really cool thing. I know you have probably tried to get your kids to do things just like I have and they haven’t wanted to do them. And you may suggest breathing and your kid may say, I am not taking deep breaths with you. And that’s okay because number one, at that point you probably need to take some deep breaths. Remember the whole dyadic co-regulation. And so we can model for our kids, right? We can say, you know what, I’m starting to feel a little stressed.

I am gonna take two slow deep breaths because that will make me feel better. And then you may even say, I wonder, do you know what happens in your body when you take deep breaths? Do you know what actually happens? Maybe you’d be interested. I don’t know though. And so then sometimes you’ll they’ll get a little curious and and want to know, and you can talk about it it signals to your brain and body that you’re okay. It takes you out of that emergency part of your brain. It gets the speak thinking part back to working.

Another thing is you can say something like, Man, it is so cool. Did you know that whenever I need to feel more calm, I can just take a couple deep breaths and then I feel calmer. I don’t know, it might work for you. Maybe you’ll try it sometime. So there are ways to model this for our kids. And worst case scenario, they don’t want to do it themselves, but we are calmer and then we are able to influence them or approach the situation with them better.

So a little bit more now. I know we have a few minutes left. So a little bit more on what I do as a pediatrician who treats a lot of anxiety and a lot of ADHD. number one is a SCARED assessment. This is a standardized, freely available assessment tool for anxiety. It is validated for kids as young as age eight, and you can find it online.

It is there’s a parent version and a child version. And so I will use this when I’m th trying to assess how much anxiety I’m seeing. it also breaks it down into those different anxiety flavors we talked about, like generalized anxiety, school avoidance, separation anxiety, those kinds of things. So that’s the first thing I’m gonna do is

kind of get the lay of the land for how how much anxiety and what type of anxiety. Again, that question about how is it getting in the way of things that kids either need to do or want to do. And

in our kids with ADHD, we’re gonna look and we’ll talk about this more in a second, but thinking about like how much of this is ADHD, how much of this is anxiety, is there anything else that could be going on, like a learning disability? So really kind of broadly looking at the whole picture to help

assess what’s causing these symptoms because kids can have symptoms and it could look the same. A kid may be having a hard time paying attention in school and that could be ADHD, that could be anxiety, that could be something else. So really trying to think about what what is causing these symptoms. I’m going to do a lot of education about the brain and about anxiety. Talk a lot and and find out a lot about that child’s sleeping habits and their nutrition and exercise and those kinds of things. And then

anytime I can with all of my my patients, I’m going to recommend that they work on some cognitive behavioral techniques with a mental health therapist and sometimes medications.

And the thing I want everyone to know is anxiety is really, really treatable. Like we talked about at the beginning, it’s really common. And when kids have ADHD, a lot of times they also have anxiety. But the good news is there are really, really great treatments. And so if I could choose between medication or cognitive behavioral therapy, I’m gonna choose the therapy every single time because I want kids to have those skills and to be able to work through those situations. And so cognitive behavioral therapy.

therapy is really working on changing how a child is thinking about those things that are stressful or fearful and making him fearful. And then in a supportive way being able to work through those situations and do those things that they need to do and want to do without having to avoid.

And then a lot of relaxation strategies, self-regulation strategies like we were just talking about. And we all have these ants or automatic negative thoughts that are going through our head. And so working with a good therapist can really help with identifying those ants and replacing them with more helpful thoughts.

I also really feel like people should know that SSRI medications are indicated for kids as young as six years old and have really good evidence behind them for treating anxiety disorders. And I always tell kids if we’re talking about a medication, I never start you on a medication with the thought that okay, you’re gonna be on this for the rest of your life. The good news is most of the time we can use these med we can use this medicine for a period of time, six to twelve months, sometimes a little long.

And especially if a child has been working on skill building with a therapist, then a lot of times that child can successfully come off of that medication. And this data that I’m showing at the bottom of the slide is from the CAMS study, which was a really well-done multi-site study that looked at treating anxiety in kids with SSRI medications, cognitive behavioral therapy, or both. And what it found was that.

doing a combo of those two things in in 12 weeks. So that’s the other thing I think it’s important to know is we’re not talking about, you know

many, many months to years of therapy. We’re talking about 12 weeks. 80% of kids had a positive response and sixty-five percent of those kids had minimal or no anxiety symptoms after 12 weeks. So significantly reducing that anxiety in those kiddos. And even without medication, with cognitive behavioral therapy alone, 60% of kids had a positive response. So really, really treatable.

And a lot of times this fear thermometer can be helpful too or an anxiety scale. And I’ll I’ll do a lot of talking with kids about okay, if zero is no anxiety and 10 is the most anxious you could feel, that’s panic. How do different situations make you feel? Or where is your anxiety typically? And this is helpful in talking about the role of medications too, because if a child is always at a nine or a ten, they’re always feeling so panicked and so stressed, it’s gonna be really hard for them.

To use skills that they’re learning in therapy if they’re always so so stressed. And so in that case, it can be really good to start a medication while a child is also doing therapy. And the goal for the medication is to bring that anxiety down a few notches. So maybe from a nine or a 10, it brings it down to more like a six or a seven. And then that child has some bandwidth, some coping to be able to work on things in therapy.

And

Just my last couple minutes here, I’ll talk about specifically questions that I get a lot of times about ADHD and anxiety together. the first, just like I alluded to a few minutes ago, the symptoms overlap a lot, right? Anxiety and ADHD can look really similar. They’re kids that have a hard time sitting still, they’re fidgeting a lot, they have a hard time paying attention, they may have trouble sleeping, they may seem really rigid, like they can’t really tolerate a big range of things. So if something doesn’t go exactly how they want it,

It to go, that’s really hard for them. We see that both with anxiety and with ADHD. It can be hard to see other people’s perspectives sometimes. And then of course, these big meltdowns or kind of these big emotional outbursts, those can happen with both ADHD and anxiety. And I think it’s really helpful to get help from your pediatrician or your other trusted resource if you’re having a hard time knowing which is causing the most symptoms or if you’re just struggling.

Your child is struggling with both of those things because we can use tools like the Scarrot like the Vanderbilt assessment and just our clinical expertise to help tease out which one is the bigger player. And I think that’s important because the next question I get a lot is okay, if anxiety and ADHD are happening together, which one do we treat first if we’re going to do medications? And typically what what I do and what what most child psychiatrists

would recommend is we treat whichever one is causing the most problems. So it is not uncommon for someone to come to me for concerns with ADHD and they may really have ADHD, but I just have a sense that until that anxiety is better, we’re not going to make any progress with that ADHD part of things. So in that case, if we’re doing medication, we may start an SSRI first. On the other hand, if that ADHD is really the bigger player and yeah, they’re kind of anxious because they’re having such a hard time in school,

But really the ADHD is the main player, then it makes sense to treat the ADHD first with this stimulant medicine and see after we effectively treat that ADHD, how much anxiety we’re left with. Because we may not have much that we’re left with, or what we’re left with may work great for therapy. Or if we still have a significant amount of anxiety, then maybe it makes sense to start a second medication. And that brings me to my last point, which is, or the last question, is there a single medication that

Treats both anxiety and ADHD. And that is a common understandable question. And my answer isn’t very satisfying, probably, because it’s maybe but not always. Most child mental health and psychiatry experts that I listen to and have learned from will say that really.

Anxiety deserves an SSRI and ADHD deserves a stimulant medication. And there are some medications that can do an okay job sometimes of treating both, but unfortunately, a lot of times if we try to treat both with one medication that’s not either a stimulant or an SSRI, we may end up with kind of mediocre treatment with both. And I am really cognizant of never wanting to use more meds than we need, but

In a lot of cases, I think it would make sense to treat the main condition first with that first line medication. And then if we’re still having a lot of symptoms of that second condition, then you add in that second medication that is best at treating that second condition. And so that’s just kind of my framework and and what to tends to work best, but every child is gonna be a little bit different.

And I will include these in our in our presentation. I’ve mentioned a couple of them, What to Do When You Worry Too Much is this workbook that is great for elementary age kids. Outsmarting Worry is kind of the preteen and teen version of that book by Dr. Hubner. It’s really good too. These are all available on Amazon or other places that you get books. Anxiety Relief for Kids is a really good book by Dr. Frigget Flynn Bridget.

That’s written for adults to read to help their kids. And then I already plugged our Kansas City expert, Dr. Natasha Berger. Her book, Managing Childhood Anxiety for Dummies, is really comprehensive and really great. And there’s also a podcast some of you may have heard of. It’s called Fluster Clux. It is really good. It’s by a woman named Lynn Lyons. And then Shameless Plug for my own podcast called the ADHD Mond.

That I do with my co-host, my co-host, fellow pediatrician, Dr. Narissa Bauer. We have an episode where we had Natasha Bergert on to talk about her book. And we have another episode on of anxiety. And of course, we talk all about all things ADHD. And that is about.

It. Some great websites out there. I like childmind.org. I like mental health literacy. Healthychildren.org is really good. These are specifically for anxiety. This is a really good one from the Mental Health Literacy Foundation. Their website is great. They have other things. Big Five for Mental Health is great. That’s from them.

And then the Meg Foundation, which I talked a little bit about before. If you go to Meg Foundation and you search Imagine Action in the search button, you will find these recordings that were recorded by pain psychologist from Stanford, Dr. Jodie Thomas, and these are really, really good. So these are things that kids can listen to before bed or any time when they want to be less anxious or they want to feel calm during needle pokes or they want to feel more control of feel in the in control of their feelings.

So I recommend these to patients all the time. They’re really good. And I think that’s it. This is my contact info. And I will stop sharing my screen. And I am happy to stick around if anyone has questions. So let me stop sharing here. And there we go.

yeah, perfect. Resources in the comments. Yes. Thank you for doing that, Kristen.

Feel free to pop on. And if you have any questions, you can just shout them out, raise your hand. I think there’s even a hand raise or put them in the chat. It was a great presentation. I loved so many things. I could like go on and on about all the different things that just resonated about the anxiety and the ADHD. And I I was really thinking about something that really struck me is when we’re talking about that co-regulation for anxiety, it really reminded me of body doubling.

That people that we do with ADHD, so that it is, it’s like, I, you know, and that actually works very well, like with the anxiety too. If you’ve got so, you know, that’s why everybody likes to go in with a friend, or sometimes if somebody else is doing it, or you can see what the other person is doing, or you can model it. Like that helps with both the anxiety and the ADHD. So I was like, wow, that’s amazing. Thanks, thanks to make that connection.

Yeah, yeah, you’re right. It it definitely fits really nicely with body doubling, for sure. Yeah.

Anyone else have some questions?

my son’s 11, ADHD, autism, anxiety, depression. we actually found his eight first ADHD med spiked his anxiety when he was about eight, and we’ve never

We’ve changed medications and went from a pediatrician to a child psychiatrist, but we’ve never been able to quite bring it back down again. but

the therapist, the you know, all his entire care staff, right? It’s that we’re waiting for the brain to to develop and we’re waiting for the brain to get older. And like we’re just some of the meds were just drop by in time. We’ve tried several SSRIs. he his ticks get get way worse within 48 hours. So we have to stop them. so like we’ve we’re like whittling down like where there was hope, and then you’re just like, Nope, nope, nope. So

Do you find that with anxiety I’m an anxious person. He comes by all this, honestly. But like, do you find when it’s kind of linked to maybe other things, the brain development over time does help or the anxiety of not treated successfully just the brain development doesn’t really help with that?

I think brain development does definitely help. It’s it’s so of course everybody is is so different, so it’s hard to to give a one size fits all answer. But I think I think absolutely that brain development helps. I think working with with a mental health therapist, which you’re probably already doing, I I think really helps too. it is it is not uncommon that

If someone tried a stimulant and their anxiety spiked that at a later date and a different stimulant when conditions are different, sometimes we can retrial the stimulant.

We know, you know, even with ADHD alone that brain development is several years behind peers a lot of times. and so that’s what’s so hard is every kid is is different. But I I think we do we do see emotional maturation and improvement with anxiety a a lot of a lot of times.

Looks like we have a lot of thank yous, a lot of great presentations, which I will second all of those kinds of things. I will say too, I’m giving this presentation to a number of teachers. And it really makes me happy that a lot of people in our school systems right now are hungry for this education and are really recognizing

It’s importance and so that just makes me feel really hopeful that I think so many adults in our kids’ lives right now are just wanting to do everything they can to help and are recognizing that all across the spectrum, no matter where kids are shaking out, they are wanting to learn more about anxiety and how brains work, so that they can help the kids in their lives.

Fantastic. Yeah. I suppose if there’s no more questions, then we will remind everyone to please go to adhdkc.org, but that’s got all the events. so if you want to keep up, I know we’ve got parent events, I think scheduled all the way through most of the rest of this year already.

As well as women’s group. We have a women’s group. We have a general group. We have a teen group. Like there’s so many opportunities to be part of this community. so please hop on over there. There is the new book club as well. so there’s kind of something for everybody. And if there’s not, we can often create something. So sneak up and we hope to see everybody continue to be on this and join us and be part of this great community.

Anything else you want to add, Kristen? I think you covered it all. Thank you. So all right. Get everybody off and bedtime routines for the kiddos and dinner for those of you who haven’t eaten yet or whatever you need to do. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Bye. Bye.

If you’re parenting a child with ADHD, chances are you’ve heard those words before.

Maybe you’ve also wondered:

• Why can my child focus on sports stats, video games, or favorite hobbies for hours…

• But homework feels impossible?

• Why does school seem so painful for kids who are clearly intelligent?

• Is this really about motivation—or is something deeper going on?

In our newest episode of ADHDKC Conversations, Dr. Kristen Stuppy and Dr. Caroline Danda sit down with Adam Tilove—certified executive coach, author, former Head of School, and new ADHDKC board member—to unpack these questions.

🧠 In This Episode:

Adam shares:

✔️ What 11 years leading schools taught him about ADHD students
✔️ Why traditional school environments often fail bright ADHD kids
✔️ His own journey of being diagnosed later in life
✔️ The “Smart Kid Paradox” and how intelligence can sometimes mask deeper struggles
✔️ Why execution—not motivation—is often the real challenge
✔️ Practical insights parents can use immediately

📚 About Adam Tilove

Adam is the creator of the NeuroDiscipline framework, designed to help bridge the frustrating gap between knowing what to do and actually doing it.

He is also the author of Split Second: Stop Stalling. Start Doing.

His work focuses on helping ADHD individuals and families better understand the mechanics behind procrastination, follow-through, and success.

🎧 Podcast Highlights

“School is often not designed for how ADHD brains actually work.”

“The world eventually stops caring how smart you are and starts caring what you can execute.”

“This isn’t a motivation problem—it’s a mechanics problem.”

📅 Don’t Miss Adam’s Upcoming ADHDKC Parent Group Event

The Smart Kid Paradox: Why School Is Painful for Kids With ADHD — and What Parents Can Do About It

📍 Online
📅 Tuesday, July 14th
⏰ 6:30 PM CT
💻 Free with RSVP

Adam will also provide:

🎁 A free practical parent resource guide
🎁 Actionable takeaways you can implement immediately
🎁 Additional tools from his NeuroDiscipline framework

LEARN MORE AND RSVP

🔗 Resources

Watch the video above or listen to the full episode

on your favorite podcast player - look for ADHD KC Conversations

RSVP for the July 14th Parent Group Event:

RSVP

Adam Tilove’s Website:

Neurodiscipline

Adam’s LinkedIn:

LinkedIn

Find this and other recordings on the ADHDKC Website:

Recorded Events

💬 Final Takeaway

If your child is bright but struggling, frustrated, or constantly labeled as “not reaching potential,” this episode is essential listening.

Understanding why ADHD kids struggle in school can change how parents support them—and how kids see themselves.

🎙️ Listen now, share with another parent, and join us July 14th for this powerful conversation.

ADHDKC Conversations
Real experiences. Expert insights. Practical ADHD strategies.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to ADHDKC Conversations

01:34 Understanding ADHD Through Personal Experience

05:39 The Role of Environment in ADHD Success

09:26 Misdiagnosis and the Complexity of ADHD

14:29 The Impact of Late Diagnosis

17:35 Supporting ADHD Kids: Parental Perspectives

18:56 The Smart Kid Paradox

21:21 The Importance of Homework and Execution

25:57 Building Structures for ADHD Success

30:02 Split Seconds: The Book and Its Insights

32:24 Preview of Upcoming Talk: The Smart Kid Paradox

Mike combined brain science, relatable real-world examples, and actionable strategies to explain how motivation is not simply about “trying harder” or “knowing better.” Instead, motivation is the brain’s internal cost-benefit system, heavily influenced by:

• Emotional significance

• Anticipated reward

• Effort required

• Working memory demands

• Fear, discomfort, or uncertainty

• Interest level

• Social support

Key Takeaways from Mike’s Presentation

ADHD brains are not lazy.

Children (and adults) with ADHD often fully understand what they should do—but their brains may calculate that the emotional, cognitive, or physical cost feels too high.

Motivation is based on feelings, not just logic.

Parents often rely on explanations, reminders, or consequences, but Mike emphasized that intellectual understanding alone rarely drives action.

Dopamine plays a major role.

ADHD brains often struggle to properly anticipate reward, making future benefits feel too distant or emotionally unimportant compared to immediate discomfort.

Resistance often comes from hidden “No” factors:

Examples include:

• Ambiguity (“I don’t know where to start”)

• Overwhelm

• Working memory overload

• Boredom intolerance

• Emotional pain or fear of failure

• Opportunity cost (“I’d rather do literally anything else”)

Parents can help by reducing barriers—not just increasing pressure.

Effective strategies include:

• Breaking tasks into smaller, clearer steps

• Supporting working memory with lists, templates, or visuals

• Reducing uncertainty

• Providing body doubling or emotional support

• Increasing novelty or interest

• Helping children identify why a task feels hard

Practical ADHD-Friendly Strategies Mike Recommended

Build clarity:

• Ask: “What feels hard about this?”

• Help identify unknowns

• Make tasks concrete and specific

Reduce working memory load:

• Checklists

• Visual examples

• Written steps

• External reminders

Lower emotional discomfort:

• Body doubling

• Encouragement

• Social support

• Collaborative problem-solving

Increase motivation:

• Music

• Challenges/gamification

• Immediate rewards

• Interest-based approaches

Watch the Recording

Missed the live event or want to revisit Mike’s powerful explanation?

Watch it above or find it on your favorite podcast player.

Download Mike’s Slides + Resources

Mike generously provided her slides, neuroscience references, and additional resources for families who want to continue learning.

Slides + Resource Packet:

Slides

Resources and References

Connect with Mike Leggett

Mike Leggett is an executive functioning coach with a passion for translating dense neuroscience into practical ADHD-friendly strategies.

Website: Center for Living Well with ADHD

Email/Contact: mike@centerforlivingwellwithadhd.org

Final Thoughts

Mike’s presentation offered an important reminder for families:

When kids struggle with motivation, it is rarely about defiance or laziness. More often, their brains are calculating that the task feels too costly in that moment.

Understanding the science behind this process allows parents to move from frustration toward collaboration, compassion, and more effective support.

By helping reduce the “No” and strengthen the “Yes,” we can better support our children in bridging the gap between intention and action.

Upcoming ADHDKC Parent Group Events

Stay connected for future ADHDKC Parent Group discussions, including:

• Anxiety and avoidance

• Executive functioning strategies for teens

• Academic and emotional support tools

• Neurodivergent parenting insights

Visit ADHDKC.org to learn about upcoming events and registration details.

ADHDKC Event Page

Thank you to everyone who joined us for this outstanding session, and a special thank you to Mike Leggett for sharing her expertise, humor, and compassionate understanding of ADHD brains.

Chapters

00:01 Introduction and Setup

01:08 Understanding ADHD and Motivation

11:30 Neuroscience of Decision Making

19:35 Brain Structures and Their Functions

20:05 Understanding the Brain’s Emotional Processing

27:03 The Role of the Prefrontal Cortex in Decision Making

31:28 Motivation: The Brain’s Driving Force

37:45 The Action Intention Gap in ADHD

45:23 Challenges Faced by ADHD Brains

55:34 Understanding the Problem Before Solutions

55:48 Motivation and Task Engagement Strategies

57:58 Removing Barriers to Action

01:00:07 Supporting Working Memory for Task Completion

01:02:51 Managing Overwhelm and Ambiguity

01:04:15 Making Tasks More Tolerable

01:05:51 The Role of Emotional Support in Motivation

01:07:48 Understanding Motivation and Emotional Responses

01:10:42 Identifying Patterns in Task Avoidance

01:12:51 Applying Insights to Parenting and Practice

01:17:20 Visual and Immediate Reinforcement Strategies

01:22:12 Navigating Rewards vs. Bribery in Parenting

Together, they dive into the powerful connections between ADHD, anxiety, emotional regulation, headaches, and overall brain health—giving parents practical insights into challenges many families face every day.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn:

• Why ADHD, anxiety, and headaches often overlap

• How anxiety can show up as anger, irritability, school refusal, or emotional explosions

• Why kids with ADHD are at higher risk for anxiety

• How understanding brain function gives kids more confidence and agency

• The role of lifestyle factors like sleep, nutrition, and stress management

• How acupuncture may help some children with headaches and anxiety

• Why emotional education is one of the most powerful tools parents can offer

• How to better recognize what’s really driving “oppositional” behavior

A Key Takeaway:

Dr. Dilts emphasizes that anxiety isn’t something to erase completely—it serves an important protective role. The goal is helping children recognize anxiety, build coping skills, and move through challenges with support.

Don’t Miss Dr. Dilts’ Upcoming Parent Group Talk:

Inside the Anxious Brain: Tools That Help Kids and Teens
📅 Tuesday, June 9th
🕡 6:30 PM Central
💻 Free & Online

Parents will walk away with actionable tools to better understand and support anxious children and teens.

Learn More and RSVP

Learn More About Dr Dilts:

• Visit Dr. Jennifer Dilts’ website

Listen Now:

Whether you’re parenting a child with ADHD, anxiety, headaches—or simply want to better understand how kids’ brains work—this episode is packed with expert insight, relatable discussion, and practical strategies. Watch here or listen on your favorite podcast player.

Tune in today and join ADHDKC as we continue building a stronger, more informed community for families.

CHAPTERS

00:16 Introduction to ADHDKC Conversations

03:20 Understanding ADHD, Anxiety, and Headaches

06:02 The Role of Education in Managing ADHD

08:46 Acupuncture and Its Benefits for Kids

11:26 The ADHD Mom Docs Podcast

17:28 Recognizing Anxiety in Children

22:19 Understanding Anxiety in Children

24:25 The Intersection of ADHD and Anxiety

27:43 Navigating Treatment Strategies

31:09 Recognizing and Expressing Emotions

36:29 The Role of Anxiety in Growth

41:43 Community Engagement and Support

This is one of the most important (and most validating) conversations we’ve had for families navigating ADHD.

🧠 Why This Talk Matters

Dr. Lindquist walked us through a cluster of conditions that often show up together:

• ADHD

• Anxiety

• Obesity & metabolic health challenges

• Binge eating

• Sleep difficulties

These are not separate issues—and they are not personal failures.

They are deeply connected through biology.

He explained how:

• Poor sleep worsens executive function and increases sugar cravings

• Anxiety and stress (cortisol) disrupt sleep and contribute to weight gain

• ADHD-related dopamine differences can drive reward-seeking behaviors like overeating

• These conditions create cycles that reinforce each other

🍽️ What We Learned About Food, Weight & ADHD

Dr. Lindquist broke down why weight management is so complex in ADHD:

• Sleep deprivation disrupts hunger and fullness hormones

• Low dopamine can lead to seeking stimulation through highly palatable foods

• Binge eating disorder is common—and often misunderstood

He emphasized:
👉 Occasional overeating is normal
👉 Frequent episodes or loss of control may need professional support

We also discussed treatment approaches, including:

• Behavioral strategies

• Nutrition support

• Medications (when appropriate)

⚙️ Executive Function & Eating Patterns

ADHD doesn’t just affect attention—it impacts daily habits around food:

• Impulse control challenges

• Time blindness (skipping meals → evening overeating)

• Difficulty with planning and consistency

These are brain-based barriers, not lack of willpower.

🧩 Practical Strategies You Can Start Using

Dr. Lindquist shared actionable tools families can implement right away:

1. Build Structure

• Schedule regular meals to prevent crashes and binge cycles

• Create consistent sleep routines

2. Start with Protein

• Supports dopamine and norepinephrine

• Helps prevent energy crashes and cravings

3. Rethink “Healthy” Snacks

• Many packaged foods (like granola bars) are high in added sugar

• Better options: eggs, Greek yogurt, cottage cheese

4. Shape the Environment

• Keep tempting foods out of sight (or out of the house)

• Make healthier options easy and visible

5. The “Dopamine Menu” — a list of go-to activities that provide stimulation without defaulting to food

6. Sleep

Sleep plays a central role in everything:

• ADHD can delay melatonin release → later bedtimes

• Poor sleep → worse focus, mood, and food choices

• Evening wakefulness increases risk of overeating

Key tips:

• Consider low-dose melatonin (0.5–1 mg; less is often more)

• Limit caffeine and screen time later in the day

• Prioritize consistent sleep schedules

💬 Final Takeaway

Perhaps the most important message:

These patterns are biological, not behavioral failures.

When we understand the brain, we can:

• Reduce shame

• Improve support

• Make more effective, individualized choices

🎥 Watch the full recording now and share it with someone who needs this perspective.

Share

At ADHDKC, we’re committed to bringing you conversations that connect the dots—and help your family move forward with clarity and confidence.

More ADHDKC Events

For the full transcript, visit our website.

View on ADHDKC.org

Chapters

00:00 Understanding ADHD and Its Impact on Families

02:01 The Connection Between ADHD and Obesity

03:39 The Anxiety and Sleep Loop

05:47 Binge Eating and Emotional Eating

08:09 Executive Function and Impulse Control

10:19 Strategies for Managing ADHD and Weight

12:32 Nutrition and Its Role in ADHD Management

14:44 Creating Structure for Success

16:53 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

23:21 Healthy Eating Strategies for Kids

26:51 Sleep Challenges and Solutions for ADHD

29:09 Navigating ADHD and Anxiety

30:52 Empowering Kids with ADHD

32:12 Practical Tips for Parents

34:20 Intermittent Fasting and Eating Patterns

38:01 Vitamins, Supplements, and Sleep

42:23 Intuitive Eating and ADHD

If that sounds familiar, you’re not alone.

In our latest episode of ADHDKC Conversations, hosts Kristen Stuppy and Sara Whelan sit down with ADHD coach Mike Legett to explore the fascinating neuroscience behind motivation and decision-making in ADHD brains.

This conversation began when Kristen heard Mike speak at the ADHD International Conference in Kansas City. After the talk, Kristen immediately asked her to speak for ADHDKC — because her explanation of complex genetics was one of the most clear explanations, understandable to even non-science nerds. It was her favorite talk from the entire conference and she knows ADHDKC parents would love to hear Mike communicate science.

In this episode, Mike gives listeners a preview of the ideas she’ll share during the upcoming ADHDKC Parent Group talk on May 12th, where she will present:

“To Do, or Not To Do? Decision Neuroscience and ADHD.”

Why ADHD Brains Sometimes Can’t Get Started

Many parents say the same thing:

“My child knows what to do — they just can’t get started.”

Mike explains that the problem usually isn’t knowledge or intelligence. Instead, it’s the brain’s internal decision-making system trying to answer a much more basic question:

“Is this worth it right now?”

ADHD brains weigh that question differently. Rather than prioritizing importance or long-term consequences, they respond strongly to things that feel:

• interesting
• immediate
• novel
• challenging
• emotionally engaging

Understanding this can completely change how we respond when kids (or adults) seem stuck.

Moving From Frustration to Compassion

One of the most powerful parts of this conversation is how understanding brain science can reduce shame.

Instead of assuming a child is lazy, careless, or defiant, neuroscience shows us something very different: the brain may simply be struggling to activate the task.

As Mike puts it:

“What’s hard is hard — and it’s hard for a reason.”

That shift in perspective opens the door to more effective strategies and more compassionate parenting.

Practical Ideas From the Episode

In this conversation you’ll hear about:

• Why “try harder” doesn’t actually help ADHD motivation
• The difference between effort problems and activation problems
• Why importance doesn’t automatically create motivation in ADHD brains
• How collaborative problem-solving helps kids build autonomy
• A simple mindset shift that helps parents slow down and find real solutions

You’ll also hear Mike share how her unusual career path (though not atypical for an ADHDer) — from an engineering undergrad to a genetics grad student to an internationally recognized swing dance instructor to an ADHD coach — shaped the way she understands learning, motivation, and brain science.

Want to Learn More?

This episode is just the beginning.

Mike will be our featured speaker at the next ADHDKC Parent Group online event:

Tuesday, May 12
6:30 PM Central

To Do, or Not To Do? Decision Neuroscience and ADHD

RSVP here

During that talk, Mike will go deeper into the brain science behind decision-making and explain complex concepts in clear, approachable language that parents can actually use.

If you’ve ever wondered why motivation seems so unpredictable in ADHD — this is a conversation you won’t want to miss.

Register for the Parent Group event here.

And in the meantime, watch the full ADHDKC Conversations episode above, on our YouTube channel, or listen on your favorite podcast player.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Setting the Stage

00:17 Understanding ADHD and Decision-Making

03:16 Mike Leggett’s Journey to ADHD Coaching

08:22 Learning and Motivation: A Unique Perspective

10:24 Decision Neuroscience Explained

12:52 The Challenge of Getting Started

15:43 The Equation of Motivation

19:52 Building Compassion Through Understanding

22:41 Common Misconceptions About ADHD and Motivation

24:11 Mindset Shifts for Parents

26:23 Practical Strategies for Families

28:03 Supporting Autonomy and Motivation

31:05 Strategies for Adults with ADHD

33:34 Bridging the Gap in Understanding ADHD

35:05 Key Takeaways for Parents

36:57 Fun and Personal Insights

Transcript - autogenerated, excuse the errors

Kristen Stuppy (00:17)

Welcome back to ADHDKC Conversations. I’m Kristen Stuppy.

Sara Whelan (00:22)

And I’m Sara Whelan. We’re so glad to have you here with us. And whether you’re a parent, educator, professional, someone navigating ADHD yourself, our goal is always the same, to bring you practical insights, really compassionate perspectives and conversations that just help make life a little easier.

Kristen Stuppy (00:43)

And today’s episode is one that I think a lot of families are going to recognize themselves in. You know these moments where you want to do something, you’ve planned it, you’ve prepared for it, but when the time comes, your brain just says,

Sara Whelan (00:58)

Yeah, for sure. Like, gym clothes are ready. We’ve got the homework all planned out. Morning routine is mapped out. But somehow it just doesn’t all happen or any of it happens at all. If that sounds familiar, you’re definitely not alone. You’re in good company here.

Kristen Stuppy (01:16)

Today we’re going to begin talking about the neuroscience of decision-making, specifically how ADHD brains decide what feels worth doing and what doesn’t. And we have an incredible guest here to help us unpack things in a way that actually makes sense in real life. I do have to say that I heard Mike talk at the November ADHD International big convention here in Kansas City, and she’s the...

only speaker I went up to after the talk and asked her if I could ask her to speak for this group because it was by far the best talk I heard at that entire conference. She made genetics very relatable. And I do have a science background, but I don’t think I needed the science background to understand what she was saying. So I’m very excited that she’s here today.

Sara Whelan (02:07)

Fantastic. I’m so excited. I do not have a science background and just cannot wait to learn your insights and what you have to share with us and our audience.

Kristen Stuppy (02:11)

Bye.

Sara Whelan (02:17)

We’re joined today by Mike Leggett. Mike’s an ADHD coach. Hi, welcome. And she has a wonderfully unique background in science and art. And she got her start in genetics, later became an internationally recognized swing and blues dance instructor. I have a dance background. Love that. fantastic. And now helps ADHD clients move from being overwhelmed, frustrated toward being curious.

Mike Legett (02:22)

you

Sara Whelan (02:44)

having momentum in their lives and making meaningful progress.

Mike Legett (02:47)

you

Kristen Stuppy (02:49)

And

Mike describes herself as a proud nerd, which we absolutely love because I am also a proud nerd. And she’s passionate again about translating complex neuroscience into language that parents and individuals can actually use. She’ll be our featured speaker at the ADHD KC parent group event on Tuesday, May 12th at 6.30 PM Central. And in today’s conversation, it’s a great preview of what families can expect.

Sara Whelan (02:53)

Okay.

Mike, welcome to ADHD KC conversations. We’re just so glad you’re here.

Mike Legett (03:20)

Thank you. Thank

you so much. ⁓ am thrilled and honored ⁓ and also delighted. And thank you, Kristen. Man, that really feels good to hear. So thank you so much.

Kristen Stuppy (03:32)

That’s awesome. I think I did a review for you as well online. hopefully you’ll be invited back to more of those talks. But I do love hearing about the journey from science into coaching. Can you tell us a little more about what drew you to ADHD coaching specifically?

Mike Legett (03:35)

Yay!

Yeah, it was exactly as straight and linear a path as you might expect from an ADHD-er. So I, you know, I actually was always interested in science and arts and writing and, right, just all the things. And when I was in high school, right, I was like, I’m going to be an engineer. So I went to undergrad and I was like, yeah, I’m going to be engineer. And then I got in there. I was like, no, I’m not.

I’m going to be a vet in my last year undergrad. was like, well, okay, no. Instead, I’m going to do genetics because I had a professor who was, I think she said she had ADHD. If not, she certainly got it. she, know, molecular genetics was super interesting. It was a puzzle. So I started my PhD in molecular genetics and I had been diagnosed ⁓ as a kid with ADHD, which is remarkable for a woman in her forties who was inattentive, which might give you a hint as to like,

how noticeable it was that I didn’t skate by. But it wasn’t managed ⁓ through anything other than know, gritted teeth and overcommitment, which was my maladaptive coping mechanism, right? So by the time I get to grad school, my coping mechanisms weren’t working anymore. So I was sitting in this grad school library, right? And this article,

comes across my desk, digital desk, about ADHD in women and what it looked like. Because when I was a kid, they were like, you have ADHD. That’s why you’re disorganized and distracted. You can try Ritalin. And I was like, cool. I don’t like Ritalin. And they’re like, cool. Have a good life. That was it. And so this article comes across my desk. And I was like, this is my entire life explained, every aspect. Because again, I was left with, this is why you’re distracted and disorganized. So there was like,

Sara Whelan (05:34)

Mm-hmm.

Mike Legett (05:35)

ugly crying in a grad school library, as one does. And so I ended up dropping out of grad school because the graduate program said, we can’t, you know, I know you’ve been diagnosed, but you have to get re-diagnosed. And there were all these hoops to jump through. And there was all this ambiguity, makes sense for a graduate program, for PhD program. But it just, it was a terrible fit. My brain felt like it was on fire every day. So

By that point, I was already doing dance basically full time. And so I metaphorically ran away to join the circus. I taught dance full time and it was the, it was like the perfect antidote to the grad school experience because everything, everything was in the moment. Everything was immediate. It was physical. was interpersonal. It was, you know, problem solving that was short-term. How do I get you?

Kristen Stuppy (06:09)

you

Mike Legett (06:29)

to understand what I’m saying and move in this way right now and feel it. So it was like dream career for my unmanaged ADHD. Amazing. Still love science, still kept learning about the brain and about ADHD. I’m not afraid of peer reviewed journals, I’m not afraid of terms I don’t know because of that background. So that stayed with me. And then pandemic hit.

Kristen Stuppy (06:33)

Okay.

Mike Legett (06:54)

And suddenly it felt like not a great idea to have people fly in from multiple states every weekend to hug while exercising. As one can imagine. So it’s funny because series of coincidences, right? Because I hadn’t had a corporate overlord to tell me, don’t talk about mental health struggles online, right? And like, don’t publicly discuss what’s hard about picking up socks off the floor. Like,

I’ve been very open about those things. And so when I started looking for a different career option, I was thinking like, okay, I want to help people in this field because people reached out and they’re like, my gosh, hearing somebody else talk about this, hearing somebody else get it.

Um, you know, had somebody tell me they got diagnosed because of my Facebook posts about like what was hard for me. Um, and so I, I was like, I want to help people with this. One thing led to another ADHD coaching came across my desk and I was like, this has so much in common with teaching dance at a high level in ways that you might not expect, but it combines that with my love of science and with helping people with a thing that gets in their way that doesn’t have to. So.

Kristen Stuppy (07:55)

Thank

Mike Legett (08:07)

You know, straight as an arrow.

Sara Whelan (08:09)

Mike, you’ve had such a unique path from genetics to dance to coaching.

So I’m curious, how did those different experiences shape how you think about learning and motivation?

Mike Legett (08:22)

Yeah, think...

Sara Whelan (08:23)

I’ll take a sip too.

Mike Legett (08:26)

Sorry guys, I’m just going through puberty today, it’s So, great. How do they each affect how I think about learning and motivation?

Sara Whelan (08:29)

Thank you.

Yes. Yep.

Mike Legett (08:41)

It’s funny because in the moment, I wasn’t directly learning about those things. I didn’t think I was. And looking back, I can see it, right? Like I was in grad school because of my like inherent motivation, my curiosity to learn about genetics and to do the problem solving and to understand the way the world works, right? What didn’t work about that was the ambiguity, the

Sara Whelan (08:46)

Mm-hmm.

Mike Legett (09:09)

lack of structure, the expectations that weren’t concrete but that were very real and had consequences. So like I think that was a really great sort of

outline of like, okay, what’s hard? What does motivate you? Right. And where, where there’s a gap there versus in dance where again, everything was so in the moment that I didn’t have to sort of generate motivation on my own. All I had to do is show up. Right. And then the minute somebody’s there asking me a question, like, I’m good to go. Let’s do this thing. You know? Um, and so I think now working with clients, it’s a lot easier for me to see the way that setting

and the way that the type of motivation needed affected those different situations. Does that make sense?

Sara Whelan (09:56)

Absolutely. Yeah, does. and really speaks to how important the combination sometimes of like setting and other factors really be a hindrance or so helpful and vital for those with ADHD, right? ⁓ and jumping into the main topic is, which can be very intimidating to some people, decision neuroscience.

Kristen Stuppy (09:57)

you

Okay.

Mike Legett (10:13)

Absolutely.

Sara Whelan (10:24)

I’m curious, right, about this, don’t really necessarily know what it means. Could you explain it in everyday language for us?

Mike Legett (10:31)

happily. So I love that neuroscience sounds like such a big fancy word, right? And it really is like, how do brain do? Right? So this, it’s like, how do brain decide? Right? And when I talk about decision neuroscience here, the assumption is that people will have, some people will have no science background whatsoever. Right?

Sara Whelan (10:40)

Yep.

Mike Legett (10:56)

And some people may, but I want to make sure that people can get a foundational understanding. Because I think this is a little off topic, not an apology, just an acknowledgement. I think it’s really hard. There’s a big gap between the information that’s aimed at clinicians and professionals and the information that’s aimed at laypeople. for laypeople, I think that learning from really high

quality sources is hard because it tends to come with a lot of science background and when you don’t know what you don’t know, we don’t have the scaffolding to build on, that’s a barrier. Because it’s a barrier that doesn’t have to be there, right? And so, you know, anytime I talk about like big scary words, I like to give it enough of a scaffolding that lets people then build up. if, know, ⁓ Kristen, you said you went to the genetics talk. I just listened to the

Kristen Stuppy (11:40)

.

Okay.

Mike Legett (11:50)

the like online conference genetic talk by

a genetics researcher. And I was, I was patting my back, myself on the back, honestly, like just, just to break, because I was like, yes, if people listen to the first one, then they’re, they’re probably able to mostly hang in this one. Right. And like, that’s what I want. I want people to be able to go and learn from those sources that are currently unreachable. So don’t be scared of the big words. I promise I will make them very understandable.

Kristen Stuppy (12:12)

Thank

Yes, I think.

Sara Whelan (12:20)

inapproachable.

Mike Legett (12:20)

How

do you brain decide do?

Sara Whelan (12:22)

Right.

Kristen Stuppy (12:23)

You

know, I feel like I hear you completely there. I teach our teen group talk and trying to teach them, I use different examples all the time and try to get them to think through it. And I love talking about the animals of the brain.

Mike Legett (12:37)

Yeah, love that.

Kristen Stuppy (12:39)

So anyway, one thing parents will tell me all the time as a pediatrician is my child knows what to do. They just can’t get started. And so can you maybe talk a little bit about what’s happening in the brain in that moment?

Mike Legett (12:52)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So first off, let’s, you know, one of the elephants in the room, right? We talk about motivation. And I think one of the challenges is that we’re not careful with how we define motivation. And so in that moment, I think we could all say, the child isn’t motivated to do the thing. But what does that mean? Does that mean that there are the child lacks forces compelling them to do it? No, it doesn’t.

What it means is the child has too many forces on one side of the equation of don’t do it compared to the forces saying do it, right? Because the output from your brain when you consider do it and don’t do it, right? What your brain sort of decides is motivation. The output is motivation. So if I give you a nice warm cup of tea and I say would you like a sip?

and you’re like, that sounds good. I want that. Your brain has decided, T sounds good. If I offer you a bucket of ice water, I’m like, would you like to stick your hand on this? And your brain is like, absolutely not. That sounds horrible, right? Your brain is motivated to not do it. Now, if I put a quarter in the bottom and I’m like, you can have this quarter if you want to grab it. Maybe you do it. Maybe you don’t. What if I put your house keys in there? Right. It’s the same bucket of ice water. You’re just as capable in both circumstances, but you might not.

Kristen Stuppy (13:56)

you

Okay.

Okay.

Mike Legett (14:16)

be

willing to dip your hand in for a quarter. Now, the difference here is that we’re talking about cognitive level choices at this point. We’re talking about, is it worth it to you based on long-term choices, blah, blah. But in these moments when we can’t start, it’s further back in the process than that. It is more primal, if you will. Our brains are trying to keep us alive. That’s what they do. And so they are trying to figure out, how do I avoid things like

Kristen Stuppy (14:31)

So,

Mike Legett (14:45)

damage to myself and discomfort because discomfort is an indication of damage to myself. How do I gain things that feel good? So when your kid can’t get started on something, even though they know, knowing was never the problem. The problem is

at like a feelings level, at a body to brain communication level, their brain has said, this is a bad idea, right? And they can, you can words it all you want. It won’t change how it feels. And thus that motivation.

isn’t there. And so with that problem now, at that point, then the problem solving is very different situation, right? Because a timer won’t change the way they feel. If they truly didn’t notice the passage of time, a timer can help. If they are stuck because they dread this assignment, then a timer doesn’t change.

Kristen Stuppy (15:33)

Okay.

Sara Whelan (15:36)

So tell me a little bit more about what goes into this equation, like how in making choices and being motivated.

Mike Legett (15:43)

Yeah, absolutely. So I mentioned that brains want to survive, right? And the way that they figure out how they’re going to survive or what’s moving them towards or away from survival at this really basic sort of cellular level is discomfort or damage or effort. And when I say like effort, for example, I don’t mean is it difficult. A lot of times parents are like, well, my kid is plenty smart enough. Of course they are, right?

That was never the problem. Um, when, when you think about an ADHD brain and effort, think about tedium or think about like, fatiguing. It’s not that they’re not smart enough. Sometimes something that’s harder cognitively is easier because it’s more challenging, right? Which brings me to a really important point that ADHD brains, probably, many of you have probably heard this, but we are interest based nervous system. So.

Kristen Stuppy (16:35)

It’s.

Mike Legett (16:36)

things that interest us feel to our brain like survival. That feels like a slice of cake. That feels like safety, a warm fire, right? And like a celebration all in one,

right? Importance is actually not one of the prime factors here. So if you have ever thought or ever heard like, well, if it was important to them, they would do it. Like, let’s get rid of that right now because honestly,

That isn’t how it works. I think it might be for neurotypicals. I’ve never been a neurotypical. I don’t know. I sort of get the impression based on the way that people talk about it that maybe for a neurotypical person, their brain takes importance and converts it into motivation. That’s real not true for us. ⁓ So instead of importance, which is like high level, that’s like our values, that’s our long-term planning, that’s effects down the road, interest is right now.

Kristen Stuppy (17:19)

Okay.

Thank you.

Mike Legett (17:30)

And so for ADHD years, right, we feel things more strongly. Our decisions are more feelings informed. All decisions are feelings informed. That is important to know, but ours are more and the way we perceive time is different. And so when ADHD brains make these choices, what’s hard? What don’t you like about it? What’s uncomfortable about it? Like, why not? And then on the plus side, like, why do it?

Sara Whelan (17:43)

Thank

Mike Legett (17:56)

Right? Is it fun? Is it challenging? Is it social? Is it concrete? Is it immediate? Right? And so again, if we think about how we problem solve for moments of I can’t get started, it’s really not about those like end point things. It’s about the characteristics of the task and our relationship to the task itself.

Kristen Stuppy (18:20)

Yeah, so making the task fun or somehow doable because it’s interesting.

Mike Legett (18:27)

Yeah, right? And one of the, you know, one of the big things that I think is useful to consider is that like, there are some tasks where they are like, they’re not horrible, they’re not great. In which case, like making it fun is what it takes. And then there are some tasks where like, making it fun will never be enough. Right? Like there is no amount of fun you could put into like calling the bank because you had an overdraft.

Sara Whelan (18:47)

Mm-hmm.

Mike Legett (18:56)

It’s never going to be fun enough. You know, there are other ways to tackle that, but recognizing like, okay, how fun can it be? Like how much? Yes. How much? No. Ooh, there’s a lot of no there. Or there’s just, there’s almost no, no, there’s almost no. Yes. Right. Different solutions for different contexts and different problems.

Kristen Stuppy (19:16)

Yeah, so important there.

Mike Legett (19:19)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Sara Whelan (19:19)

Absolutely.

I’m already thinking about stuff in my own life that you’re talking about. So I’m having to track and focus on the task again, because I’m interested in that. like, all right.

Mike Legett (19:26)

You

Sara Whelan (19:31)

One of the things I really appreciate about your work is that you build compassion and help people build compassion, self-compassion, right? For kids and for the adults in their lives. How can understanding decision-making help reduce shame, frustration, things like that?

Mike Legett (19:52)

how does understanding this help build compassion?

Sara Whelan (19:55)

Yep.

Mike Legett (19:56)

is such a great and important question. When we understand the biological basis for what we experience from those around us and from ourselves, it becomes a lot easier to understand it and to sort of meet these brains where they are. When we don’t understand, I think it’s a lot easier to, you know, assign character implications or decide something is a moral failing. When we understand the

biological basis and we understand what’s happening, it becomes a lot easier to separate somebody’s internal life from their outcomes. So if I understand that, you know, that somebody needs glasses and they don’t have glasses, they have terrible eyesight, right? And then I yell at them for not catching the typos on a wall mural that’s really far away.

because it’s not important to them because they didn’t care because they didn’t try like.

Whoa, that makes me a really mean person if I knew, right? If I didn’t know that they had glasses, I mean, okay, still not in my nature to like yell at somebody, but you get the idea, right? Like, if I know that this person needs glasses, then A, I give them glasses. B, I give them another task. C, I give them an assistant to help them, whatever, right? I no longer think like, ⁓ they’re trying to sabotage the mural project, right?

Sara Whelan (21:19)

Mm-hmm.

Mike Legett (21:26)

And so understanding where something comes from and how it plays out, I think it just helps us accept the fact that it’s real. And it helps us to accept the things that are gonna help and the things that are not gonna help. like try harder. That is meaningless. That is meaning. I tell my clients all the time, like, I think willpower is made up. I think discipline is.

Like again, made up. These are just cudgels for us to beat ourselves up with. I don’t buy into it. Motivation is real, but it’s not like what we think is important in the long-term for our better selves, right? Motivation is the feeling we get that says do it or don’t. Now we change our context, we manage what goes in and we can change our motivation or we work around it. We say, okay, I’m not going to be motivated to do this. What do I do so I can get started anyway?

Sara Whelan (22:20)

Mm-hmm.

Kristen Stuppy (22:21)

Thanks.

Mike Legett (22:23)

Right? Those are our options, not like just try harder. Sure. Yeah. Grab my magic. Try harder feather.

Kristen Stuppy (22:32)

So what are some of the most common misconceptions that you see parents have when they see their child avoiding or procrastinating something?

Mike Legett (22:41)

Mm-hmm. So I think one is, again, is like, it’s an effort problem. Like, that doesn’t mean anything, you know? It’s an activation problem, not an effort problem. If they can’t activate, they can’t put in the effort. You know, I think something that is genuinely hard, and I have a lot of like empathy for parents in this situation, right? It’s hard to see your kid able to play video games for hours on end or able to clean their room when a friend is coming over, but not because it’s important to you.

Right? And at the same time, there’s this paradox where you know your kid is smart. You know your kid is loving and wonderful. Right? And so like, where’s the disconnect? So I think even these days, there’s a lot more good information out there. Right? We used to assume we, luckily this was mostly before my time, but like the common assumption used to be like, this is a bad parenting problem, or this is a bad kid problem. And neither of those things are true. It’s a brain that doesn’t fit into a neuro-typical context.

And so as parents start to understand that, that again, it becomes harder to project the wrong idea onto the kid and easier to see what’s really going on with the kid. So yeah, if, if you’re like, my kid just needs discipline. My kid just needs, you know, willpower. My kid just needs someone to teach them the right calendar app.

Kristen Stuppy (23:57)

Mm-hmm.

Mike Legett (23:58)

I think those are, they come from an understandable place,

right? We get messaging like that all the time. But if you’re noticing they’re not serving you and they’re not helping, like it’s for a reason.

Sara Whelan (24:10)

Absolutely. And for parents who are listening right now and maybe thinking, this is what goes on in my house every morning, every day. What’s a mindset shift, maybe one that would help immediately in those moments?

Kristen Stuppy (24:10)

Yeah.

Mike Legett (24:25)

Yeah,

good question. I think the biggest one is going from like, I just need to fix this. This is going to be, this is going to sound semantic and I promise it’s not. You know, we need to fix this to, we need to figure out how to fix this. That sounds really subtle and again, semantic, but let me, let me give you an example. It will be about parents, but it’s just one I have top of mind. Let’s say that you’re

throwing a party and you’re super overwhelmed and you can’t get started. One thing, like an exercise I might do with you is say, OK, let’s write down all the uncertainties. So you write down all the things you don’t know. Who’s doing food? What’s the date? Where am I going to have it? Blah, blah, blah. The next step for many people would be jumping to try to solve these. But if I want to slow down a brain, I might say, OK, now write down how you could figure it out.

So for the date, well, I need to talk to my partner and pick a date with them, with the calendar. That’s a different question. That’s a different answer than I would get if I asked you, cool, so what’s the date going to be? And just that added little layer, what it does is it recognizes that something is in the way. And it helps you get a little space and a little bit of distance.

Sara Whelan (25:37)

Mm-hmm.

Mike Legett (25:47)

from the intensity of the emotion of solve it right now. And so, when you have like chaos or unsolvable problems or whatever, they’re not unsolvable, I know, right? But they feel that way. It’s a real feeling. When you encounter that, like, instead of thinking like, what’s the solution, think about like, okay, what are the uncertainties? And when I’m calm, how could I solve those?

Sara Whelan (25:51)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yes.

Kristen Stuppy (26:04)

you

Mike Legett (26:13)

And like ideally, how could we solve those collaboratively, right?

The other people involved. Cool. That’s so much easier. Sometimes, often, but yeah.

Sara Whelan (26:20)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kristen Stuppy (26:24)

Yeah, I love the idea of like slowing down the brain and not trying to solve the problem right away before you. Like that stop to gather more information and to know what your problem really is before you try to solve. So let’s talk some more practical strategies as we understand the brain and making these decisions. What are some tools that families can start experimenting with?

Mike Legett (26:29)

It’s so hard, it takes practice.

You ready? huh.

Yeah, I think tying back to the idea of collaborative problem solving. I know that parents struggle with the, do I get my kid to do the thing? Because again, that’s what we’ve seen around us. But if you can start asking your kid what’s hard, if you can start asking them what’s in the way and not in a way that’s trying to lead them to an answer.

but in a way that is holding space and helping to co-regulate with them, giving them the sort of emotional stability so that they can face those feelings and think. Because the ADHD brain trying to survive, discomfort means damage. What do do when we feel discomfort? We bounce. We bounce. We’re out. So when your kid says, don’t know, your kid just bounced, right? Their brain ran away from discomfort. if, if you can get,

Kristen Stuppy (27:19)

Okay.

Mike Legett (27:39)

to a point of like, what’s getting in the way? What’s hard? Like, that’s a really big shift, you know, and it may sound a little vague to be practical, but like, try it. What’s hard? Where are you stuck?

Sara Whelan (27:55)

So how can parents support autonomy and motivation instead of getting stuck in power struggles? That’s a common one, right? Right. Very tough.

Mike Legett (28:04)

Have you tried a magic wand? just, know, fairy godmode.

Yeah, again, like I think the more collaborative, the more co-regulate, co-regulative. Yeah, I’m say that’s a, that’s a word. You know, the more cooperative we can be in these moments and the more we can support kids. A.

that helps you be on the same page and working as a team, which feels so much better than nobody wants to fight with their kids, you know? It also models for the kids how to do this for themselves. If I’m a kid and I can’t start cleaning my room, that was my childhood. I definitely could never clean my room as a kid, right? And if my parents had come and said, why can’t you just do this? God!

Kristen Stuppy (28:37)

Okay.

Mike Legett (28:54)

You know what I learned to say in my head? I learned to say, why can’t I just do this? God. Right? If my parent is able to come in and say, it’s a lot, huh? I get that. Totally fair that it’s a lot. What’s one place you could start? What’s task? What’s one aspect? What if you find all the shoes? What if we just look for shoes together? Right?

Kristen Stuppy (29:00)

Okay.

Mike Legett (29:24)

It helps model that and the kids learn to do that sort of thing. so instead of like, you have to start this right now, right? That’s trying to force and guess what? We’re adding negative emotion to a situation. It’s already full of negative emotion. The motivation that that creates is to escape even harder. you know, and so thinking through like, how can you get started? What’s one thing you could do?

Sara Whelan (29:43)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mike Legett (29:53)

That gives the kid the choice of themselves that helps them think like, could I start? Not someone’s forcing me, but how can I do this? That increasing their sense of agency, figuring, letting them choose where to start gives them that sense of autonomy. And obviously those choices are going to shift over a kid’s development. Because the way you might approach this problem with a teenager is going to be different than with a four-year-old.

Kristen Stuppy (30:08)

So.

Thank

Mike Legett (30:20)

But I think that fundamental skill set and approach is the same. And, you know, the earlier parents can start doing it, the more they can equip their kids to self-regulate and to step back and to slow down and to think about how they can solve the problem instead of what’s the answer right now, right?

Sara Whelan (30:40)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kristen Stuppy (30:40)

Right.

And what about adults with ADHD? A lot of our parents have ADHD. They may or may not have a diagnosis of ADHD, but we know that the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. If they’re dealing with kids with ADHD, probably at least one of the parents has ADHD and they might not be recognizing some of these patterns in themselves. How would you advise an adult with ADHD to approach some of these strategies?

Mike Legett (31:05)

Would it sound cheeky if I said the exact same thing? Because honestly, the exact same thing.

Sara Whelan (31:10)

No, not at all. In fact, I’m thinking

like, this applies all throughout life, this particular skill set, right? Like no matter what your age is.

Mike Legett (31:16)

It does. the... Yeah, absolutely. And

it’s funny, so many adults feel like we have to solve this in a vacuum. We have to be able to motivate ourselves using spontaneous motivation in the moment because we said so, because whatever. And I’ll tell you, like, if we had a dollar for every time I said to my husband or a friend or a coworker, like,

Sara Whelan (31:34)

Mm-hmm.

Mike Legett (31:43)

I’m stuck. I talk this through with you? I would be so rich. I’m not. So obviously nobody’s giving me dollars for that, but it makes like, whoo, it makes a huge difference. And what’s cool about this is that like, it sounds like a, a small ask if somebody says that to you, right? I’m like, Hey, can I talk this through with you for a second? I’m just, I’m just stuck on something. I don’t need you to solve it. I I just need to talk it out loud.

Sara Whelan (32:08)

Mm-hmm.

Mike Legett (32:10)

Now, if I were to say to most adults, how feasible would it be for you to just say that to somebody? There’s this pushback of like, no, no, no, I’m supposed to be able to solve it on my own. I can’t just always ask people. Guess what? It’s every bit as small when you ask as it is when somebody asks you. So taking the same approach of like, hey, talk it through with somebody, somebody who can co-regulate and somebody who will not keep on shame and judgment, right?

Kristen Stuppy (32:23)

If

Mike Legett (32:40)

And that lets your body and your brain have a very different conversation because now you’re co-regulating with somebody. Now you have social connectedness, right? Versus when you’re talking to yourself and your self-talk inside your head is agitated and emotional and mean, probably. It’s either mean or it’s panicked and it’s running away, right? Why can’t I just do this?

Sara Whelan (33:03)

Mm-hmm.

Mike Legett (33:03)

Has anything ever been solved? Why can’t I just do this? ⁓ right. And yet we try, we try so hard. That’s such a hard pattern to train out, but it is, it absolutely is. know, neuroplasticity is a really cool, fancy sounding word that means your brain changes. The more you think something, the more easy it is to think that the more you do something, the more easy it is to do it. Brains do change. You’re not like stuck. they just, does take practice. And one of the easiest ways to manage

Sara Whelan (33:18)

Mm-hmm.

Kristen Stuppy (33:26)

Thank

Mike Legett (33:31)

how you’re thinking there’s something is to do it out loud with somebody.

Kristen Stuppy (33:34)

Yeah.

Sara Whelan (33:35)

Hmm. So important. Yep. And I think adults need that. So yeah, need

Mike Legett (33:40)

We do, we do.

Sara Whelan (33:43)

it. And they need permission to be able to do it, to give themselves permission.

Mike Legett (33:48)

Mm-hmm.

Sara Whelan (33:49)

We’re going to be diving much deeper into this topic during our ADHD KC parent group event. It’s Tuesday, May 12 at 630 p.m.

What are you most excited to share with families during your presentation on May 12th?

Mike Legett (34:07)

Yeah. So I, you today I tried to go easy on the heavy science stuff because like, I feel like it makes sense to sort of scaffold things up. Um, but I do, I do really like doing that. And so I’m, I’m excited to hopefully see people go from like, I don’t know what that big scary word means to, oh yeah, that makes total sense. I get it. It’s just, and then some bizarro metaphor. Right? Like that’s.

Sara Whelan (34:34)

Thank

Mike Legett (34:35)

I

love to see that. So I really do look forward to diving into different parts of the brain and how brains work and things like that. And again, with the goal of bridging the gap so that people can look towards better, higher quality information sources and also building that compassion and that awareness.

Kristen Stuppy (34:56)

Yeah, if there was one thing that you want parents to walk away from, that main talk that you’re going to be giving, what would that one thing be?

Mike Legett (35:05)

Ooh, everything. That’s the point. I’m kidding. I think it would be like understanding that what’s hard is hard and it’s hard for a reason. And that like, if we go from there, that’s a way better starting place. You know, what’s hard is hard because brains.

Kristen Stuppy (35:10)

Thank you.

Sara Whelan (35:28)

Yeah. And who would you say this talk is especially helpful for?

Kristen Stuppy (35:28)

Just kidding.

Mike Legett (35:35)

people who have brains, people who love brains, people who live with brains. Yeah, I do think that particularly people who are scared of science or feel like they don’t have enough foundation to listen to sources that are going to be a little sciency, there’s such great information out there. But there is sometimes a gap in the learning. And it can feel like,

Sara Whelan (35:38)

Right?

Mike Legett (36:00)

Well, if I’m going to hear about all these things and I don’t know what a neurotransmitter is or what it does, or I don’t know like how, you know, I don’t know what the corpus callosum is. Like how would I even start? Right. You don’t have to go get a degree in neuroscience to like read about ADHD. You know, um, the idea is that like, this is a bunch of the stuff that would help you learn that thing so that you can jump right in.

Sara Whelan (36:29)

making it accessible, building curiosity, which makes it approachable. Yeah. ⁓ which is even better. Must be.

Mike Legett (36:31)

Yeah. Yeah. I’m silly. There will be silliness. No, I know, right? I’m very serious,

Kristen Stuppy (36:38)

Don’t say that at all from you.

Mike Legett (36:43)

calm, stoic, beige. I like lots of beige in my life.

Sara Whelan (36:47)

You

Kristen Stuppy (36:49)

So actually, before we wrap up, let’s do something fun to just kind of get listeners to get to know you a little bit better. So rapid fire, quick answers. Let’s see what you got. All right. Current nerdy interest.

Mike Legett (36:57)

See you around.

I’m remodeling my bathroom. That doesn’t sound nerdy, except that you should see my spreadsheet.

My spreadsheet is a thing of beauty for this project.

Kristen Stuppy (37:17)

Love it. Favorite way to recharge.

Mike Legett (37:21)

Ever heard the phrase, those who work with their minds relax with their hands? So I love that phrase first off. Second off, that bathroom remodel right now, my recharge is working with my hands by literally jackhammering the floor of that bathroom.

Kristen Stuppy (37:25)

I’ve not.

Sara Whelan (37:26)

No.

Kristen Stuppy (37:37)

More skills come out during this talk.

Sara Whelan (37:38)

Yes.

DIY, right?

Mike Legett (37:40)

Hahaha!

Kristen Stuppy (37:42)

⁓ a tool or

strategy you use personally.

Mike Legett (37:47)

Guys, I have stopped losing my phone. It’s just a simple, stupid little like plastic card thing and the little like tag piece comes out the bottom. My phone, I just put it on and now I can’t drop it. And if I don’t have pockets, it’s fine. And if my pockets are stupid and if phone falls out of my pockets, it just hangs. And if I set it down and put something on top of it, which used to be a common occurrence, it has a tail.

Kristen Stuppy (37:50)

Cool.

Mike Legett (38:16)

You know what? I haven’t lost my phone in months, you guys. Months. Life changing. That’s my tool.

Kristen Stuppy (38:21)

It’s

amazing how little things are so life changing. I love it.

Mike Legett (38:24)

Huge.

Yeah.

Sara Whelan (38:24)

mean,

the phone is a.

Kristen Stuppy (38:26)

⁓

Last question, something small that brings you joy during the day.

Mike Legett (38:31)

Honestly, my super colorful office. Look at that color. Look at it.

Kristen Stuppy (38:36)

I do love that.

Sara Whelan (38:37)

I love it.

Kristen Stuppy (38:40)

is amazing. Well, thank you so much, Mike, for joining us today and bringing clarity and compassion, Have fun. Yeah. ⁓

Mike Legett (38:48)

It has been an absolute delight. Thank you. Thank you so

Sara Whelan (38:51)

us.

Mike Legett (38:51)

much for having me. This has been really fun.

Kristen Stuppy (38:53)

Yeah, and I know our listeners are going to walk away with a whole new perspective on nerdy science after they listen to you talk for an hour. ⁓

Sara Whelan (38:54)

Yes.

Yes.

And we’ll want to hear more even after that. I do. I know. Yes, everyone will. And for everyone listening, if today’s conversation resonated with you, we would love for you to join us at the ADHD KC parent group online event on Tuesday, May 12th, 6 30 p.m. Central. Mike’s going to present to do or not to do decision neuroscience and ADHD.

Kristen Stuppy (39:29)

And you can find all the registration information, our show notes on our ADHDKC events page, whether your child has ADHD, you have ADHD or both. You can always walk away with practical insight and a lot more compassion for how our brains actually work.

Sara Whelan (39:45)

And if you enjoyed this episode, please share it with someone else who could use it. And don’t forget to follow ADHDKC conversations wherever you listen to podcasts or watch videos.

Kristen Stuppy (39:56)

for being part of our community. We’re so glad you’re here.

Sara Whelan (39:58)

We’ll see you nexttime

If you’ve been feeling overwhelmed, stretched thin, or like you’re constantly juggling too many responsibilities — you’re in good company.

This month’s ADHDKC Parent Group talk took place both at the J and online. It was our first hybrid meeting in quite a while, and of course the classic tech gremlins made an appearance. The projector wouldn’t share anything but a full screen, the camera refused to cooperate… you know how it goes. Thankfully, Dr. Stuppy had recorded a full run‑through earlier in the day, so we’re able to share a clean, uninterrupted version with you.

The session dives into something many parents experience but rarely name out loud: parental stress and caregiver wellbeing.

In this talk, pediatrician Dr. Kristen Stuppy unpacks why parenting today feels so heavy, how chronic stress affects our bodies and minds, and — most importantly — practical ways to lighten the load without adding more pressure to your life.

You’ll learn:

• Why parents today report higher stress levels than other adults

• How chronic stress affects sleep, focus, digestion, and emotional regulation

• What’s actually happening in your brain and nervous system during stress

• Simple, realistic strategies to support your mental and physical health

• Why progress, not perfection, is the goal

This conversation blends science, lived experience, and compassionate strategies that parents can actually use in real life.

Feeling overwhelmed does not mean you’re failing as a parent.

It means you’re carrying a lot.

Small changes: better sleep habits, realistic boundaries, movement, connection with others — can gradually help your nervous system reset and make daily life feel more manageable.

You don’t have to fix everything at once. One small step forward is enough.

Watch or Listen — Your Choice

The full video recording is available now on our YouTube channel and is embedded in this week’s Substack post.

If you’d rather listen on the go, the audio version is also available on your favorite podcast player, making it easy to learn while commuting, walking, or doing chores. We’ve added ADHD KC Conversations to Apple podcast and Overcast.

Resources from the talk

AAP Family Media Plan

Mayo Clinic’s CBT-I

Mind Tricks (mindfulness)

Quest for Health KC - Dr Stuppy’s Substack

Surgeon General’s Advisory

And if you know another parent who could use a reminder that they’re not alone in this, please share this talk with them.

Share

Chapters

00:00 — Introduction to Parental Stress and Wellbeing
05:32 — Understanding the Prevalence of Parental Stress
10:12 — The Impact of Chronic Stress on Health
22:05 — Recognizing Stress as a Signal for Self-Care
23:19 — Practical Strategies for Managing Stress
37:13 — Embracing Progress and Community Support

Transcript

Auto-generated. Excuse the errors.

Welcome to Parents Under Pressure, strengthening your mental health and wellbeing as a caregiver. Tonight, we’re talking about things most of us know, but don’t always recognize the full impact of, and that awareness can help us make more meaningful choices. Before we dive in, take a moment, close your eyes if you’d like, and just notice your body. Are your shoulders tight? Is your jaw clenched?

Is your mind already running through a million things you need to do tonight after this talk? And if so, you’re in the right place. Many of you are carrying a lot, not just because you’re doing anything wrong, but because what you’re navigating is genuinely hard. If you feel tired, overwhelmed, or stretched thin, nothing is wrong with you. You’re not failing. You’re just responding to a role in a world that has a lot of us. And tonight isn’t about you trying harder.

It’s about understanding why parenting can feel so heavy and what actually helps lighten the load. And by the end of tonight, you’ll learn the prevalence of parental stress, understanding the impact of stress on physical health. And this part’s a little heavy, but stick with me because you’ll leave with at least one way to better manage your stress.

And not to add to your pressure because I know this is a very busy slide, but since I’m talking as a representative for CHADD this is a summary of the participation agreement that CHADD requires for each event. You can read the whole thing from ADHDKC’s home page if you’re curious. This is just the main points and I’ve highlighted the most important parts for this group. In a nutshell, be kind to others. What’s said here stays here.

unless it’s information coming from me, which then you can certainly share, but if it’s a personal story or comment from some other participant, please don’t share. And then I do plan to share the recording. In fact, this is a pre-recording. And if you need any accommodations, let me know, which is a little late for the recording. And none of this is medical advice specific to you.

please talk to your own doctor or therapist for advice. And a little bit about me, I’m Kristen Steppe. I’m a pediatrician who works closely with families navigating ADHD and other neurodiversities, both in clinic and at home. I was diagnosed with ADHD myself within the past year and share my story in letters to my younger self from Find the ADHD Girls,

an organization focused on earlier diagnosis for girls because the delay worsens outcomes. I’m here tonight representing ADHDKC, our local CHADD chapter. I first got involved with ADHDKC in 2012 and the parent events that I attended helped me to learn better how to manage the chaos in my own home. And during the pandemic, I began leading the ADHDKC teen group online, which I still do and would

be happy to have any of your middle school or high schoolers join me. Those are very differently organized events, very interactive to keep the teens engaged because they cannot do a lecture format like this.

I now also teach kids and parents through the Teach Me ADHD program initiated by Dr. Nerissa Bauer, a behavioral pediatrician in the Indianapolis, Indiana area. And then I also write about ADHD and related conditions on my stub stack. It’s always free, so feel free to follow me at Quest for Health KC.

I also know firsthand what it’s like to feel the pressure of holding everything together. Like many women who were diagnosed with ADHD later in life, I stayed constantly busy because it kept me going. That was a good thing because it got me through medical school and residency and raising children and everything, but it also comes with a price. What we’ll talk about tonight comes from both the clinical science and real life, because those two are not able to be separated.

And before we go any further, I want to set a few expectations for our time together. This is not a space for perfection. I will not be perfect for sure. And you do not need to fix your whole life tonight. We’re all a work in progress. And so I love this passage from Braden Young, spoken from the point of view of a parent with ADHD. For neurotypical folks, there’s usually a buffer between I’m frustrated and I’m acting on frustration. For us,

that buffer is often non-existent or incredibly short. We’re impulsive with our emotions, just like we’re impulsive with everything else. Add in the stress of parenting, which is already emotionally demanding, sleep deprivation, sensory overload from a chaotic household, and the constant executive function demands. And it’s no wonder we sometimes lose it over a missing shirt. And if you’re parenting neurodivergent kids, which many of us are, given the genetic component of ADHD, you’re dealing with

their emotional dysregulation on top of your own. It’s like two emotional tornadoes colliding and someone has to be the calm in that storm except you’re also a tornado. So how does that work? I’m sharing this because it’s important to acknowledge that those of you who have neurodivergence in the home, stress leads to even more dysfunction. So a lot of us feel like we’re living in a tornado.

My hope is that you walk away with one or two insights that help you understand yourself with more compassion and maybe one small thing you can try that makes next week feel a little lighter. And throughout tonight, I invite you to check in with yourself. Notice what resonates. Notice what doesn’t. Take what’s helpful and leave the rest. And before we go any further, I am curious. Just a show of hands or if you’re online, emojis, how many of you would say you feel stressed?

most days of the week.

You’re not alone. For those of you who raised your hands, you are definitely in good company. In August of 2024, Vivek Murthy, the Surgeon General of the time, felt this was an important enough problem that he released an advisory on the mental health and wellbeing of parents. And tonight is about understanding why that is and what can be realistically done about it. Now, parenting has always been stressful, but right now it’s especially hard.

Recent data shows that parents consistently report higher stress levels than other adults. So if you’re comfortable, raise your hand if you ever felt like you have too much on your plate.

Who feels like everyone else seems to be have things together better than you?

It’s not surprising. A lot of us tend to hide it well and so do others. So it’s not recognized and stress shows up differently at every stage of parenting. In the early years, it’s sleep deprivation and adjusting to new roles. As kids grow, the challenges shift, managing their emotions, school pressure, social dynamics, and constant decision making. And by adolescence, parents are juggling with the increasing independence of their children, risk-taking behaviors, and they worry about their kids’ well-being.

all while managing work and daily life. The mental load is really heavy. So keeping track of schedules, needs, emotions, responsibility, both of yourself and of your children, and maybe your whole family, it takes a real cognitive energy. And over time, that constant demand can affect our focus, memory, and overall well-being. And the data backs this up. 33 % of parents reported high levels of stress compared to 20 % of other adults.

and nearly half of parents said that they were overwhelmed most days of the week. So for those of you who might be feeling this way, you’re definitely not alone. I want you to take a moment and reflect. What’s one word that describes how parenting has felt for you this week? Just think it in your head. You can zero it in on one word.

is naming feelings is the first step towards control. Name it to tame it. Helps to manage overwhelm, improves emotional regulation, and create space between feeling and emotion and reacting to it. The important thing to remember is this, you’re not alone in feeling this way. And while this level of stress is common, it doesn’t mean you have to carry it without support. It’s important not to carry guilt or the feeling that you should be doing something better.

When these thoughts show up, notice them. Their normal response to pressure, not a personal failure. So parents today face stressors that previous generations didn’t. The isolation, loneliness, social media, constant achievement pressure. And you’re not less capable. The expectations just keep stacking up. So you’re not alone. National data.

shows this affects many families. And mental health challenges also hit some parents harder. Experiences like community violence, poverty, racism, discrimination, health issues, and family structure all shape how stress shows up. And we all respond differently. That’s part of being human. As parents, we wear many hats. Each role comes with its own set of challenges. As you know, juggling these roles can lead to stress and burnout.

There are not enough hours in the day, so parents make time by taking away personal time they need for self-cares. Societal expectations and the comparison culture, especially with social media, can intensify these pressures. We all see people every day doing all these things, and it looks so seamless when they’re doing it. So why can’t we do them? Who has ever felt like you’re the only one not keeping up?

So we hold ourselves to the pressure to do it all. What we forget is what we see about others is the face they’re putting on. You don’t see that behind the scenes look. And if you did, you’d see that they are often struggling just as much as you are. It’s common to feel stressed sometimes. We all have some form of stress in our daily life, whether it’s sitting in traffic, trying to find lost shoes, trying to find a sitter when yours suddenly cancels on you, or rushing to meet a deadline at work.

And as frustrating as all these moments can be, they typically pass quickly and you can move on with your day. And before we talk about what to do about stress, it helps to understand what’s actually happening inside of our bodies when we feel overwhelmed. When we understand the why, it often is easier to be kinder to ourselves and to make changes that actually help.

The stress response kicks in when your body shifts into fight, flight, or freeze mode. That’s your brain’s way of protecting you from anything it reads as a threat. Today’s stressors aren’t usually things that we can run away from or physically fight, but our bodies still react as if they are. That means the same system meant to keep us safe can sometimes work against us. And when stress is constant, your body stays on high alert. That ongoing activation, which chronic stress,

can wear you down both physically and emotionally ⁓ So your health is impacted over time. And understanding what’s happening underneath the surface really matters. Much of what we feel today isn’t a personal flaw. It’s our nervous system doing exactly what it was built to do. And I’m going to explain the brain in a way that I do with kids ⁓ through the animals that live there. This is actually

topic of next month’s talk for the ADHDKC Teen Group. So if you feel like you have middle or high school students that could learn about this, I encourage you guys to join me in April. But I talk about the wise old owl. It lives in the frontal lobe, the part of our brain that helps us think, plan, and solve problems. The limbic system has its own animals too. The barking dog represents the amygdala. And that’s the part that scans for danger and wants to keep us safe.

But like a real dog, sometimes it barks at things that aren’t actual threats. Just like when the Amazon delivery guy comes to the door, the dog starts barking like you’re in danger. And when the dog barks, unfortunately, it scares away that wise old owl and the elephant. That’s our memory system. So that’s why when emotions are really strong, you can’t think clearly or remember things. When you said things like, can’t think straight, that’s because your owl was chased away.

And in real life, it’s not a literal dog. It’s the sympathetic nervous system kicking in and that system triggers the fight or flight, shifting blood away from the thinking parts of your brain towards a quick reaction survival system. Your heart races, your muscles tense, your breathing speeds up, which is great when you’re in physical danger and you need to run away or fight, but it’s not great for everyday stress. And with less blood reaching that frontal lobe, you cannot plan, you cannot organize, you cannot problem solve.

all of those things become really difficult. Your brain is prioritizing survival, not reflection. So that moment where your clear thinking disappears, isn’t you losing it, it’s your body doing exactly what it was designed to do, even if it’s not helpful in the moment.

The autonomic nervous system has two main parts, the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems. When you’re under stress, the sympathetic nervous system activates the body’s fight, flight or freeze response. Once the stress passes, the parasympathetic nervous system, the rest and digest system steps in to keep your body, ⁓ help it calm down and recover.

When stress becomes chronic, our fight and flight system can stay activated for too long. This constant state of alertness is exhausting for the body and the brain, and it can lead to headaches, difficulty concentrating, and feeling mentally scattered. Worrying thoughts take up mental space, making it harder to focus, increasing the risk of mistakes or accidents, and interfering with sleep. Who here has ever struggled to sleep because your brain just won’t shut off?

How about how many of you have woken in the middle of the night, like 1 a.m., when you’re stressed about something? Yep, I have done both of these things, and it’s not healthy. Over time, poor sleep further weakens your ability to regulate emotions, manage stress, and other things, which we will be talking about as we go through the body systems. But what this means in real life is that when you feel snappy, exhausted, or foggy,

you’re prone to making mistakes and it’s not a personal failure. It’s your body doing exactly what it was designed to do under chronic stress. So when people say it’s all in your head, it’s not actually true. Stress shows up in very real physical ways throughout your body. Let’s talk about how your body carries stress and why it can show up as a stomach issue, headaches, constant exhaustion. So when your body is under stress, your muscles automatically tense to prepare for that fight or flight.

And in short bursts, that tension fades once the stress passes. But with ongoing stress, these muscles can stay tight all the time, which can lead to chronic pain and discomfort. And persistent tension in the neck, shoulders, and head is a major driver of tension headaches and migraines. Stress can also show up as pain in the back, shoulders, and arms. And when you’re stressed, your body becomes more sensitive overall. So every pain that you feel feels sharper and harder to ignore. It turns up that volume.

So many people notice tight shoulders, jaw clenching, or headaches when they’re overwhelmed, and that’s your body responding the way it was designed to, just not in a way that helps you deal with everyday stress. And the respiratory system supplies oxygen and removes carbon dioxide from the body. So stress and strong emotions can cause respiratory symptoms, such as shortness of breath and rapid breathing, as the airway between the nose and the lungs constrict.

So the airway gets narrower. And studies show that acute stress can actually trigger asthma attacks in people with asthma or rapid breathing or hyperventilation caused by stress can bring on a panic attack in someone prone to panic attacks. And if you think about it, this is known well enough that it shows up in books and movies. So Goonies, 1985. Mickey is asthmatic and frequently uses his inhaler when nervous or scared.

And then more recently in Inside Out 2, Riley has a panic attack during a high stakes hockey game, illustrating her new emotion anxiety as it takes over the control panel in her mind. So these are things we know, right? It’s not new information.

When something sudden happens, like watching your child fall at the playground or getting cut off in traffic and slamming on the brakes to avoid an accident, your body reacts instantly. Your heart rate increases, your heart pumps harder, and those stress hormones like adrenaline and cortisol surge through your system. This is your body’s way of preparing you to act quickly and stay safe. You guys all felt your heart pounding in moments like that?

Most of us have, right? And that response is completely normal and actually protective. You may feel like you’re having a heart attack, but you’re not. Your nervous system is doing exactly what it’s designed to do. When you’re stressed, the blood vessels that supply your heart and large muscles widen so more blood can rush to the places needed for quick action. Once the danger passes, the body is designed to settle back down. That made perfect sense back in the caveman days when you needed to run from danger.

to stay alive, right? And the people who did that well, the people who responded to that fight, flight or freeze response survived longer so they could procreate more. So that is actually a trait that has been passed down for generations. And it’s still helpful in true emergencies like protecting a child or stopping in traffic, but it’s not so helpful when you’re just nervous before a presentation and it becomes a problem when the stress response doesn’t turn off.

So with chronic stress, the heart rate and blood pressure can stay elevated for long stretches. And over time, that constant strain raises the risk for high blood pressure, heart disease, and even stroke. Stress doesn’t affect everyone the same way. For women, hormones matter. So before menopause, estrogen helps protect the blood vessels and supports recovery from stress. After menopause, that protection decreases so stress can have a bigger impact on heart health. It’s almost like it’s preparing us to be moms and having more stress, right?

⁓ So stress can also contribute to poor health behaviors linked to increased risk for heart disease, stroke, such as overeating and eating unhealthy foods. If you’re running late, you just stopped at the drive-through on your way somewhere. Or if you’re not getting enough physical activity, because it’s hard to make time for exercise when you have too much to do. And of course, sleep is impacted. Sleep is one of the most undervalued things to our health.

and self-medicating with drugs or alcohol to feel better, as well as forgetting to take prescribed medications as recommended, both are increasing our risk when we are stressed. So the risk of substance use disorder is very significant. And all of these can increase the risk of obesity, which in turn increases the risk of heart attacks, strokes, high blood pressure, as well as diabetes and other health risks.

Social media talks a lot about that mind-gut connection while trying to sell you something usually. The connection itself is real. Just don’t buy all this stuff to try to help your mind-gut connection. Gut bacteria help produce key neurotransmitters, including dopamine, which affects motivation, drive, and reward, serotonin, which affects mood stability and emotional balance, and GABA, the calming kind of break that reduces stress.

and chronic stress kills off the microbes that make these chemicals, which can affect mood, focus, and emotional regulation. Now, the gut has hundreds of millions of neurons and communicates constantly with the brain. That’s why we feel butterflies when we’re nervous or why stress can trigger pain, bloating, discomfort. Stress also changes eating patterns. Some people eat more, some people eat less, and a lot of times they eat less healthy food, the foods they crave, which aren’t necessarily broccoli. ⁓

And this can lead to heartburn, reflux, digestive upset. And it even affects how we swallow, increasing air intake, which causes more bloating and gas. And stress can slow gut motility, which increases stomach acid and disrupts that gut-brain axis, which can cause nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, or just general stomach upset. It also heightens sensitivity, so that discomfort feels more intense. It turns up that volume again.

So the gut’s protective barrier can weaken under chronic stress, allowing more bacteria to cross into the body. And the immune system actually handles this. But on-growing kind of chronic low-grade inflammation can worsen conditions like inflammatory bowel syndrome, reflux, ulcers, other things. Now in stressful situations, your adrenal glands, which sit right on top of your kidneys, produce more cortisol.

And over time, this can cause fatigue, depression, or issues with your immune system. And related to our endocrine system is our reproductive system. Low libido is a common side effect of chronic stress. Males may experience erectile dysfunction or impotence. In some cases, chronic stress can affect sperm production. And females may experience changes in their menstrual cycles or have troubles conceiving.

Chronic stress impacts your ability to fight off infection. A lot of people recognize when they are under a lot of stress, they have a lot to do, they’re more likely to get sick. And that’s not just your personal impression of it. Continuous exposure to cortisol suppresses immune function. And this results in an increase in infections and may impact the body’s ability to fight off cancers.

So I want to pause here for a minute. If you’re listening to all of this and thinking, no wonder I’m tired, no wonder I have headaches, gut symptoms, I get sick so often, or whatever it is your body feels from stress, you’re exactly right. Your body’s been working over time. And that was a lot to take in. It probably raised your anxiety a little bit thinking about it all. ⁓ So if you’re overwhelmed right now, that totally makes sense. Talking about stress can bring it closer to the surface before it gets better, and that’s okay. If this is resonating, you’re definitely not alone.

And if you remember nothing else, remember that your body is trying to protect you. Even when it feels like it’s betraying you. It’s doing what it’s supposed to do.

The good news is this, stress doesn’t have to be the enemy. While it can absolutely take a toll on our bodies and our minds, it can also be a signal, an invitation to pause, adjust and care for ourselves differently. You’ll hear a lot of messages out there promising those quick fixes or miracle solutions. And the truth is the most effective tools are usually much simpler and much more doable than they’re made out to be.

I’m not gonna sell you anything tonight, other than maybe some ideas, there’s a free. ⁓ They don’t require perfection or a total life overhaul. They start with self care, not the Instagram version, but the kind that helps your nervous system settle and your body recover. And often the moments where you feel the most overwhelmed are actually the moments when care matters the most.

We’ll focus on ⁓ some realistic, compassionate ways to support yourself, things that fit into your real life, ⁓ not add more to your plate. So instead of asking, what’s wrong with me? A more helpful question might be, what does my body need right now? And that’s where we’re gonna start shifting from pushing through to actually supporting ourselves.

The first thing you guys can do is start with setting limits. Who here has struggled with saying no? I know I have. And that can be problematic. You can’t do your best if you’re stretched too thin. List out all the projects, the commitments at home, at work, with your kids, that make you feel overwhelmed. Identify the tasks that you feel you absolutely must do in order to survive, to help your family, to help yourself.

to continue at work. And then try to see what you can cut back on, the things that are not essential. Learn to say no without guilt. No one can do it

You can ask for assistance in getting work done if you have a lot of volunteer things that you’re working on. Maybe ask for help with those. Refrain from accepting any more commitments until you feel your stress is under control.

Setting limits on non-essential obligations is important to your health. So stop feeling guilty when you say no to putting more on your plate. Every choice we make takes up brain energy. So limit your day to choices with routines. If you always wear the same outfit on Monday, have the same breakfast on Monday, and do the same routine every morning, Monday’s emotional load, mental capacity load,

is already lessened because you don’t have to make those little choices that you would have to do otherwise. Just set it on a routine. If you automate your day, it is so much easier.

And then exercise regularly. I know you guys all know this, right? But exercise can relieve stress, tension, anxiety, depression. You should find activities that are realistic for busy parents. Like play with your kids instead of watching them play. Go to the park and run around with them. Or at least at work, get up and walk around once an hour. Do some chair squats as you work through emails or lift some light weights as you listen in on a Zoom call.

make a commitment to only watch TV if you’re on a stationary bike, a rowing machine, or a treadmill. I actually do not like to exercise, so I either pay for a group class because then I’ve invested some money in it and it has a time on my calendar that helps me do it. ⁓ Or I get into a TV series, something I can watch on Netflix or YouTube or whatever, and I row. I have a rowing machine and I make a commitment to myself that I cannot watch that show unless I’m rowing.

It works. So if you need motivation, find what works for you. Maybe ask a friend to join you on a walk or some other activity.

Regular moderate to vigorous activity, which is 30 to 60 minutes three times a week enhances gut motility strengthens your intestinal barrier and Reduces harmful inflammation. Exercise even helps the gut microbiome along with your diet.

All right, we all want our kids to eat well, speaking of diets, but it’s really hard when we’re juggling work, school, and activities. Think about small ways that you can make nutrition easier. A meal prep session, either on your own or with friends, because community is also really important for stress management. So get together and meal prep. Stock your freezer for the week, save time and money, and lower daily stress. You can also prep fruits and veggies in grab-and-go containers, and that helps everyone make healthier choices.

I know when my kids were younger, if I had strawberries, which they loved and they were like the perfect ripeness that they liked and everything was good, they would not eat it if they had to rinse it and cut the little green tip off. Right? Like make it easier for them. Rinse them, cut them up, put them in little self-serve containers. Then they would grab them and eat them. Carry a water bottle and aim to finish it each day. Try to limit caffeine.

more than 400 milligrams a day, which is about four to five cups of coffee or two energy drinks can increase anxiety and make stress feel worse. So try to cut back on that.

And then remember that our gut bacteria make those neurotransmitters, right?

In addition to exercise to support our gut microbiome, one simple hack would be to add one fermented food per day. This provides probiotics for your dopamine factory. And fermented foods seed your gut with bacteria that influence neurotransmitter production and inflammation.

These fermented foods might include things like yogurt, sauerkraut, kimchi, certain pickles. You have to lick some of them or just in vinegar, but they have to have the live cultures in them. Anything that is fermented can help your gut, but you also need to feed the bacteria with fiber or they die. So that’s where oats, beans, lentils, berries, bananas, nuts and seeds all come in.

One neurotransmitter I want to spend a little bit more time on is dopamine. This is the brain’s reward chemical, driving motivation, pleasure, movement, memory, and attention. It regulates focus, learning, and motor function. So protein is that neurotransmitter fuel. Meat, eggs, fish, poultry, legumes, nuts. We all know what protein is, right? But this provides the building blocks, the tyrosine, the phenylalanine.

needed to make dopamine for motivation, drive, and cognitive energy. And if ADHD lives in your home, people with ADHD are well known to have lesser dopamine. So eating protein is one way to elevate the dopamine. Exercise also helps. Doing favorite activities helps. There’s lots of ways to elevate it, but protein is something that everyone needs, especially people living with ADHD. Low protein can lead to brain fog, low motivation, emotional flatness.

All right, as sleep is necessary, so the brain can grow, reorganize, restructure, make neural connections, and so much more. In the interest of time, I’m not goingto go through all the things that happens when you sleep. We could spend a full hour on that, but the main benefits are on this slide. And this lack of talking about it somehow parallels how we treat sleep in general. It gets dismissed when other things come up.

Too many of us stay up too late or get up too early to do other things, but sleep should be a priority. It’s not time wasted. Adults need generally seven to nine hours of sleep. And how many of you guys actually got that last night?

So good sleep matters and a few habits can help make it easier. Try to limit stimulants like caffeine and nicotine and sometimes ADHD medications ⁓ later in the day, unless your prescriber advises otherwise. Even caffeine feels calming. like, especially for people with ADHD where their mind is going crazy, the caffeine and other stimulants help to calm the mind. So some people do say they fall asleep faster, but it still reduces deep restorative sleep.

and it stays in the body for five to six hours. So an afternoon cup of tea or coffee can still affect your night. If you’re exhausted, a short nap, about 15 to 20 minutes can be more helpful than pushing through with caffeine. There is a thought of a caffeine nap where you drink a cup of black coffee and it is specific black coffee, not any of the sugar sweetened

other drinks because the sugar then interferes. But if you drink black coffee then lay down and nap for 15 to 20 minutes the caffeine starts to increase as you wake up so then you can be more alert after the nap from sleep and the benefit of the caffeine. But again you need to be careful not to do this too close to bedtime. And nicotine including vaping and chewing as well as smoking also disrupts

Alcohol may help you fall asleep faster, but it tends to fragment the sleep later in the night, which increases your awakenings and can worsen snoring or sleep apnea, which is harmful to restful sleep. It’s also a diuretic, which means you’re gonna have to get up and pee more often. So nobody sleeps well with those things. And if cutting back on caffeine, nicotine, or alcohol is difficult, that’s not a personal failure. These things are hard to quit. They’re habit-forming and getting some support can make a real difference. So talk with your doctor.

And of course, screens make it harder for adults, just like they do for our kids. The light from the devices suppresses melatonin, and the content that you’re scrolling, the news that you’re watching, the social media that you’re checking, all those endless feeds, they keep the brain stimulated instead of winding down. So when we don’t get enough sleep, the body becomes less responsive to melatonin, which also creates this cycle of ongoing sleep trouble.

Social media can also increase anxiety and lower self-esteem by showing those filtered versions. Everybody else’s perfect life out there. Then you compare yourself and you feel like a failure. So this adds pressure and self-criticism and not helpful. We remind our kids of this stuff all the time, but it applies to adults as well. So being mindful of screen use isn’t about restriction. It’s about protecting your rest and well-being.

The AAP’s Family Media Plan, which is posted here in the image, is a helpful tool for those of you who want to help set family boundaries. It’s easy to find online. If you search AAP Family Media Plan, you can find it.

So consistency helps your brain recognize when it’s time to wind down. Going to bed at a similar time each night and having a simple calming routine signals safety and that helps your nervous system shift into a rest mode. Gentle stretching, mindfulness, journaling, or a quick brain dump, just writing it all out can help quiet that racing mind.

Limiting screens before bed matters. This is one of the best things that anyone can do to help get to sleep better. ⁓ Turning devices off an hour or two before bedtime can be very helpful.

Melatonin supplements can help some people, but they aren’t regulated like medications and aren’t a substitute for healthy sleep habits that help your brain wind down more naturally. In daytime movement, morning light and a cool, dark, quiet bedroom all help support better sleep. Pets in the bed can be disruptive, especially for light sleepers. And then keep your phones out.

I do want you to get your phones out now. We’re not sleeping. And I want you to ⁓ click on this QR code if you are struggling with sleep. This is a program that you can follow for free from the Mayo Clinic and it has CBT for insomnia.

It takes several weeks to go through the program, but it’s free and you can do it at home. And if this is not sufficient for you, then work with your doctor or a therapist because there is a specific cognitive behavioral tool to help with insomnia because it is that important. All right. And then mindfulness and meditation have been around for centuries and most religions have some sort of form of mindfulness practice, but it’s not inherently a religious act. Fads don’t persist like this. ⁓

It has been around for so long, but in recent years, scientists have actually been able to study the brain and find amazing things like increased brain matter in the areas of the brain that problem solve and decreased in areas of the brain that worry. We spent an hour talking about this for a past ADHDKC event and invite you to watch the recording sometime. The QR code will get you there or you can find it from the homepage of ADHDKC.org with the past events.

All right, and then I want you to spend time on yourself. Practice positive thinking by replacing recurring negative thoughts. We bully ourselves, telling ourselves the same negative story over and over and over again, and then we believe it because it’s spoken really loud. If you can change that to a positive affirmation or rework the negative thought to something more positive and say that over and over and over again, you will start to believe the positive thinking.

A gratitude journal can help your brain focus on what’s going well in your life. So when you feel overwhelmed and exhausted and think nothing is going right, you can look through your journal and see, yeah, that was a good thing. I do appreciate that. And mindfulness can help ground you when things feel overwhelming. Also staying connected with friends and family, talking with the people you trust, all of that matters. Find hobbies that keep you engaged so you’re not stuck in the worried loops. You’re enjoying something that you enjoy.

And if you’re struggling, ask for help. Let others feel good by supporting you, just like you feel good when you support them. And asking for help is a strength, not a weakness. And even something like a carpool can help free up hours in your day to help lighten your load. To help others when you can, all adds up, because helping others feels good. ⁓

So if you’re still struggling, reach out to a physician or a therapist. I know access isn’t always easy, and that’s part of why I started doing these ADHD KC talks and all of my other stuff with my blog and everything, because I want to support everyone and I want to make it more reachable for families. Now figuring out how stress affects your body is an important step in dealing with it. Identify sources of stress in your life and look for ways to reduce or manage them.

As we wrap up, I want to remind you of something important. Nothing you heard tonight means you’re doing anything wrong. If anything, it helps explain why things can feel so hard sometimes. And that makes sense. Parenting neurodivergent kids is hard work. Feeling overwhelmed does not make you a failure. It means you’re maxed out and burnout is real. Not everyone will understand. You don’t need more willpower. You need more support and rest.

So cut back on commitments and say no without apologizing. Lower your expectations of how you think things should be. And don’t forget to celebrate the small wins. Try to check in with yourself every day. How are you doing? What do you need? What can you do to make your day easier? And you don’t need to fix everything at once. You don’t need a perfect routine or a perfect plan. Even small moments of awareness, rest, or self-compassion can make real differences over time.

Progress is quiet and gradual, and that’s okay. And as you leave tonight, I hope you can carry one simple message with you. Your body and mind are doing their best. With a little understanding and support, you can find more balance. And I have Post-It notes on the tables. Everyone take one and write one health-related commitment that you will work on this week. I put some of the tips shared here to consider.

Do what’s possible to bolster your health so that you have the energy and the strength to tackle the challenges you are facing. One small step can have a positive effect. And taking positive steps for your health will help you manage your stress. So don’t try to do it all today. One step at a time makes a difference. You will get there with those one little steps. And sometimes there will be a backward step and that’s okay because you in general can still move forward.

Making changes are hard. So bring in your community. Find people who support you, who can help you along the way.

All right, I put the QR codes here again. The first is to encourage you to learn about mindfulness. And the second, kind of more pink one, is the link for CBT for insomnia. And I want to invite everyone to follow my Sub stack There’s a link from that Mind Tricks page ⁓ that the QR leads to, or it’s just drkristenstuppy.substack.com I write a lot about ADHD, anxiety, and related things. ⁓

Thank you for showing up for yourself and for the people who you care about. I hope that you all leave feeling a little lighter and more informed and you find ways to be more kind to yourself.

Use what you wrote down here to work on you this week. All right, what are your questions?

This conversation gets to the heart of something many families experience—but rarely hear explained clearly:

👉 Why are so many individuals with ADHD also struggling with weight, sleep, anxiety, or binge eating?
👉 Why does it feel like “lazy” is the label people get when something deeper is happening?
👉 And what does neuroscience actually tell us about these overlaps?

🧠 What We Talk About in This Episode

Dr. Lindquist walks us through:

• The shared neurobiology between ADHD and obesity

• How dopamine and reward pathways influence eating behaviors

• Why “response inhibition” and emotional regulation matter

• The powerful role of genetics in both ADHD and obesity

• How anxiety and sleep disorders intensify everything

• Why medication is not a failure—but often an evidence-based necessity

One of the most important takeaways?

Obesity, ADHD, anxiety, and binge eating are biologically driven conditions—not character flaws.

There are real brain-based mechanisms behind food responsiveness, impulsivity, emotional eating, and sleep disruption. When we understand that, shame starts to lift—and effective treatment becomes possible.

If you’ve ever wondered why you or your child feel constantly tired and hungry… or why evenings spiral into binge eating after a long day of holding it together… this episode connects the dots.

🎧 Listen now on your favorite podcast platform and share it with someone who needs to hear this. For those who would rather read the transcript, see the bottom of this newsletter.

Chapters

00:00Introduction to ADHD and Obesity

01:43Dr. Lindquist’s Journey in Medicine

03:57Identifying Gaps in Obesity Care

05:59Understanding Genetics in Obesity

08:21The Connection Between ADHD and Obesity

10:14Neurobiology of ADHD and Weight Management

12:51The Role of Anxiety and Sleep Disorders

15:37Personalized Treatment Approaches

17:51Addressing Stigma in Obesity and ADHD

19:42Final Thoughts and Future Conversations

📅 Coming Up: ADHDKC Parent Talk (Free & Online)

We’re also thrilled that Dr. Lindquist will be speaking live to the ADHDKC Parent Group!

🗓 Tuesday, April 14

⏰ 6:30 PM CST (Online)

🎟 Free event

Title: “Why You’re Tired and Hungry: How the ADHD Brain Impacts Weight, Sleep & Binge Eating”

In this deeper dive, parents will learn:

• Why ADHD increases risk for metabolic issues

• How sleep disruption fuels appetite and inattention

• The connection between anxiety, binge eating, and dopamine

• What individualized, evidence-based treatment actually looks like

• How to reduce stigma and increase hope for your family

This is one of those topics that affects many families—but rarely gets discussed openly.

You can RSVP at ADHDKC to get your Zoom link:

RSVP

💬 Why This Matters

As pediatricians and parent advocates, we see it all the time:

• A child with ADHD who struggles with impulse control around food

• A teen with metabolic syndrome and untreated anxiety

• A parent who feels guilty and blames themselves

• Families stuck in cycles of exhaustion and shame

Understanding the biology changes everything.

We hope you’ll:

• 🎧 Listen to the episode

• 📅 Register for the parent talk

• 📣 Share with another parent who might need this perspective

The more we understand the brain, the better we can support our kids—and ourselves.

See you on April 14.

RSVP for April 14th

Transcript

Kristen Stuppy (00:14)

welcome back to ADHDKC Conversations. I’m Dr. Kristen Stuppy and I’m here with my co-host, Sara Whelan.

Sara Whelan (00:22)

Hi everyone, we’re so glad you’re joining us. Each month we sit down with experts, parents and individuals in the ADHD community to explore topics that make a big difference for our families in Kansas City and even beyond Kansas City.

Kristen Stuppy (00:36)

And today we’re thrilled to welcome Dr. Matt Lindquist.

Dr. Lindquist is a triple board certified physician in internal medicine, pediatrics and obesity medicine, and is the founder of MoKan Weight Loss and Metabolic Health. He’s deeply passionate about teaching both patients and medical professionals about obesity as a disease and helping people find.

individualized paths to better health and well-being.

Sara Whelan (01:00)

We’re especially excited to talk with Dr. Lindquist today because his work really sits at the intersection that isn’t discussed nearly enough. How ADHD, weight, sleep, anxiety, and eating behaviors can all really be connected at a neurobiological level.

Kristen Stuppy (01:17)

This conversation is a chance to get to know Dr. Lindquist, learn from his clinical experience, and start unpacking why these connections matter so much for individuals and families affected by ADHD. So with that, Dr. Lindquist, you’re triple board certified in internal medicine, pediatrics, and obesity medicine, which is a pretty unique combination. Can you walk us through your professional journey and what led you to focus your career on obesity and metabolic health?

Dr. Matt Lindquist (01:42)

Yeah, glad to. And first, you know, happy to be here. Appreciate you having me on the podcast and getting to, yeah, just getting to educate. love talking about this and getting, you know, reliable info out there to the public. So, yeah, I mean, I’m a true masochist, both in my training and day to day. So,

you know, that fits and like most of us in medicine, I I love to learn and if I have like a vice, apparently that’s it. But yeah, I feel like I had, you know, kind of this slow burn into obesity. You know, I knew from a pretty early age, I mean, one of my best friends, I, you know, I wanted to be a physician earlier than I thought I wanted to be apparently.

And then I remember seeing a couple of docs from small town North Dakota. And I remember during college coming back and seeing my eye doc and one of my friends’ dads who’s a family doc in town. I talked to them and one of them didn’t even want to retire because part of it was like that’s their social aspect of their life too.

And that really clicked with me in that I really love developing those like longitudinal relationships. And with internal medicine and pediatrics, similar to family med, I get to know that whole family and really see multiple generations. So.

where I was like, when I’d go into OR during surgery, I hated it. Like cut and run and no, patients are asleep, people love that and I wanted to see them out throughout their life. then, being, and this is kind of odd, I sometimes bring this up in clinic, but I was always just this skinny little fart.

you know, maybe like 130 pounds, soaking wet. So remember in high school, I was actually, I got into nutrition to kind of gain muscle and, you know, strength for sports. And that was, you know, that I think that was when I really like dipped my toes into just understanding nutrition, which unfortunately is not taught quite that well in both undergraduate and graduate medical education.

So it’s probably a little ahead of the curve there. then I think that just kind of snowballed on itself until I was about a second year resident in my combined internal medicine, pediatrics residency. And I spent a month with my mentor, Dr. Brooke Sweeney at Children’s Mercy.

Dr. Sara Hampel, who’s the mother of the program. that’s where I saw what, like the light bulb went off. I saw what good obesity medicine could be, and that was off to the races from there.

Kristen Stuppy (04:35)

you know, as a pediatrician, there’s a saying that we gave up our 20s for this because there’s so much of training that we really do have to give up part of our life to intensely study and be at the hospital and everything. And I cannot imagine being triple board certified. I only did one with the kids. So but you can tell, like if this is your passion and even since high school, if you had this love of the nutrition that very much fits how that could keep you motivated to do all that you do.

That’s fantastic.

Sara Whelan (05:04)

Yeah, I think it stands out too. It’s rare today to find a family to find a resource who has so many different layers and levels of your experience. But it’s just interest too in terms of looking at things from a family system, which is really so relevant and important with ADHD and with families.

You’ve helped build large academic programs and then went on to open MoKan weight loss and metabolic health. What gaps were you seeing in care that made you realize something different was needed and for you to go ahead and open your own practice?

Dr. Matt Lindquist (05:40)

Yeah, mean, you know, first, I mean, it’s a and it’s as some may know, it’s a pretty big leap to go from employed, employed practice to kind of bootstrapping your own clinic. so I would say one of the one of the biggest gaps was just my family time. So that was that was a major, major push. But yeah, you know, so.

I had started the University Health Weight Management Clinic about eight years ago or so now. And I was seeing...

I was seeing people with heart failure, kidney failure, dialysis, and pretty advanced disease states. And I was sitting there in a 20-minute slot, which is inappropriate for them anyways, let alone anyone, pretty much. And I was doing absolutely fundamental nutrition stuff, for example, while talking about, hey, so what is a protein?

while also managing these meds and okay, well if you’re on dialysis, don’t worry about how it’s metabolized by the kidney. A little bit more complex medicine stuff. And I just, mean, even fighting for a dietician and a psychologist and a sleep psychologist, like.

still those resources were still so limited. And I was having to do so much of that and it just like we couldn’t scale. And so I really wanted to do something where I could really reach more people. And then I wanted to see families. maybe 5 % of my practice I was like trying to coordinate between

you know, the pediatric hospital and my adult clinic, but it just wasn’t, you know, wasn’t very easy to do.

Yeah, so it was just not easy to coordinate care between the two hospital systems for the parents and their kids. And also, I was pretty passionate about it, and I knew there wasn’t really a resource in town. So that’s been really fun to be able to see families in my clinic now, see them back-to-back appointments. It’s more convenient for them.

And the other, and actually what I did not realize was such a gap, and this is partly just a, yeah, potentially a local or regional gap was for kids with more like class one, class two obesity. So, you know, I think class one, class two, class three, or quote unquote morbid obesity, it’s kind of the, you how we think about them. So.

when I was at the pizza hospital, I’d see a lot of class three. And they’re just bad, really tough genetics and just really advanced disease states. then we have kind of a bread and butter nutrition clinic, if you will. And what I started seeing when I opened MoKan was all these kids with, they’ve got...

kind of tough genetics, you know, as far as their risk for obesity and maybe diabetes. But they have pretty good resources. you know, and their parents were thoughtful about their diets and exercise and sleep. And so they’re getting all the things, but they still had a genetic disease. And they really just needed, a lot of times, pretty simple, appropriate meds. And it’s...

easy to take care of them. And so rewarding to see, you know, like a 15 year old kid with metabolic syndrome, which we know is a risk factor right now for, you know, heart disease and whatnot down the road. And within a year or so with pretty simple treatment, it’s gone. And they feel great. And the parents are just relieved that they don’t have to worry about their kids’ health.

Kristen Stuppy (09:32)

There’s a lot of stigma with weight and obesity, but also a lot of evidence-based approaches that address the biological, behavioral, and environmental factors of weight management. And you just mentioned genetics several times in there. How do you incorporate the genetic considerations, medications, lifestyle changes into a comprehensive treatment plan?

Dr. Matt Lindquist (09:48)

Yeah, great question. So first, I always get a good picture of the family history. mean, obesity is one of the most heritable diseases in all of medicine. Historically, we have not approached it that way. And in one thing, lot of patients and families, they come to me looking for answers, like, hey, why is this a problem for me? And at least like half the time, it’s right there in their initial questionnaire.

It’s like, oh, OK, well, I ask, who else in the family has obesity? And it’s like, OK. And they’re like, everyone. I go, OK, well, we can stop thinking about that question, because you just answered it. I was just talking to a patient about this this morning that I find it’s really fascinating that if we have a family with breast cancer, we call that a BRCA mutation.

Right? A bunch of autoimmune disorders that might be HLA-B27, know, it’s like genetic predisposition. If you have a whole family with obesity, they’re called lazy. You know, so like there’s this huge discrepancy. but we’ve known for a long time that it’s a strong genetic disease. So so one, you know, I just I like to paint that picture for families just in

man, the relief that they get knowing that, yeah, this is not our fault. I don’t know. I get mad with my staff. I always have if we’re low on or if we’re out of Kleenex in my exam rooms, because there’s a lot of tears are shed, just giving that validation.

Sara Whelan (11:12)

Yeah.

Kristen Stuppy (11:29)

There’s so much guilt associated with it because people feel like they did something wrong. They ate the wrong things or they didn’t exercise. They are lazy. They feel like they are responsible for their own weight problems.

Dr. Matt Lindquist (11:29)

And then, ⁓ yeah.

Right, well, mean, that’s the message they’ve been given for, you know, pretty much all of our history so far.

Kristen Stuppy (11:48)

Right?

Sara Whelan (11:49)

Many people don’t automatically connect ADHD with weight or metabolic health. When did you start noticing in your work a meaningful overlap between ADHD and obesity?

Dr. Matt Lindquist (12:02)

Yeah, was definitely when I was at the metabolic bariatric clinic at Children’s Mercy with a great clinical psychologist that some of you may know, Dr. Amy Beck, who has worked with ADHDKC in the past and has gladly joined the staff here at MoKan.

But she was, I mean, it was just really helpful having her to identify and really clarify the behavioral health conditions for our families and patients. And then helping me and the other doc in the clinic come up with really good medication plans based on this. And kind of over time, we were, one academic center,

in that particular clinic, we just had more layers of those resources. So I could see it followed, like, okay, yep, hey, we got the formal diagnosis of ADHD. And then over time, just that ADHD became so obvious with certain families and certain behaviors that either were a major driver for their obesity and weight gain.

and or were just a barrier to success in the program. as you guys know, just life in general. yeah, so it just is, yeah, just time in that clinic with Dr. Beck and how, yeah, seeing how it drove the disease and then kind of worsened or limited our success.

Kristen Stuppy (13:17)

Mm-hmm.

Sara Whelan (13:36)

Yeah, yeah. I think we were talking about stigma earlier and there’s with obesity, well, also with ADHD in terms of control and feeling like, just change your behavior. So, so helpful then that you kind of have your eye on.

and understand it from a different framework for families to really, like you were saying, to validate and provide some real quality information, but also just support that typically they may not get just from society. So yeah, really helpful.

Dr. Matt Lindquist (14:11)

Yeah, mean, I feel like another disease state, if you will, that a lot of patients and families get labeled as like lazy. And they come in, they’re like self labeling. Or someone else mentions that. And I can’t remember, was some years ago that.

Sara Whelan (14:29)

Right.

Dr. Matt Lindquist (14:37)

I go, okay, I don’t believe in lazy, or anything in that realm. To me, it’s either some undiagnosed mental health condition, whether it’s depression, anxiety, or ADHD, or a sleep disorder. But yeah, it’s just misunderstood. And in the context of some of our old...

how we used to approach anxiety and depression, especially in primary care. I was like, oh, just make yourself happier or whatever. And then we learned like, OK, well, that’s not quite right. It’s like, oh, be more focused. Great, thanks for the guidance. How about let’s change my biology, please.

Sara Whelan (15:04)

to stop.

Will cover.

Kristen Stuppy (15:15)

Right. And when we talk about ADHD, we often focus on the attention or the behaviors, but not always what’s really happening in the brain. And ADHD is associated with a shortened lifespan because of many factors. But can you talk a little bit about the shared neurobiology between ADHD and obesity, which is of course one of the relations to the shortened lifespan.

Dr. Matt Lindquist (15:37)

Yeah, is, there was a great study, or just a review published years ago by Dr. O’Hara out in Maine, kind of prominent pediatric obesity doc. And this was a, this is kind of a light bulb moment for me thinking about this, because.

One, Dr. Stuppy as you know, when we see, so as pediatricians, we see like eczema and asthma and allergies. We know, like these are like really shared things and they’re in this like grouping where if you see one of them, you’re likely to see its friends. That doesn’t mean they have to be there, but they’re generally lurking around somewhere.

And this really, know, really shone a light on that for me. And what we know about it is there’s, it’s the link between the two is primarily like dysfunction in our like dopamine and like reward pathways. Right? that’s, there’s, you know, a little bit more to that, but that’s kind of the main, you know, the main center where we have some trouble.

And in fact, so there’s like there’s some functional MRI studies And so for You folks out there that don’t know what that is You know, we look at the MRI. It’s like the you know, 4k TV where an x-ray was like, you know TV sets of the 1960s so so really detailed view of In this case her brain and then the functional is like actually we’re you know, you’re doing something like we’re know looking at cards or

watching something, so we’re looking at changes in your brain while you’re doing something. And what we’ve seen with this overlap of ADHD and obesity is like three kind of specific areas. One is like reward processing. and this is actually, so part of this is like food responsiveness, okay? So you like see food, not.

not shrimp, but you visualize it. And is your brain kind of lighten up or you’re like, I’m fine. So that accounts for about 64 % of the effect of between ADHD and our fat mass. And then two is response inhibition. So you’re like, OK, again, I see this or we drive by one of the thousand billboards that tell you you’re hungry.

And then I want it, and I know it’s not great for my health or my goals, whatever, but I got to have it anyways. Or like a hyper fixation with ADHD, et cetera. It’s just a wonderful, terrible combination. And then the third part is emotional regulation. And I see that clinically a lot with just emotional eating.

So, yeah, so those are the kind of the main shared pathways between the two and that we see, you know, I see pretty regularly in clinic.

Sara Whelan (18:27)

You also work with patients who have anxiety, binge eating, and sleep disorders. How do you see these issues interacting with ADHD in your patients?

Dr. Matt Lindquist (18:37)

man, like I said before, they’re close friends. So one, anxiety is the most commonly associated behavioral health diagnosis associated with binge eating, which I think a lot of people don’t know is the most common eating disorder there is. And depending on your setting with like so.

like a bariatric surgery center versus an outpatient clinic like mine. I mean, we can see 50 % of people coming in with somewhere on that binge eating disorder spectrum, up to like 75 % if you’re in bariatric surgery. And a big part of this, again, that reward pathway, right? So dopamine reward. But then, of course, people with ADHD,

that have more impulse control issues, which particularly is more prevalent in kids. So that part of it, thankfully, lessens a little bit over time. But especially with kids, impulse control is huge. And then as you guys know,

ADHD can worsen the anxiety, or anxiety can worsen ADHD. And then both of those can kind of swell into this rest for binge eating disorder later. And then sleep disorders, which are one of the most important things that we think about in obesity and just our metabolic health long term, it’s a huge risk for these patients.

You know, one insomnia, so trouble falling asleep, that can be due to kind of circadian rhythm problems or anxiety. know, one of our patients are like, hey, my mind is just racing at night. I’m worried. And that could be either anxiety and or ADHD. And then, and then when you have sleep disorder and poor either quantity or quality sleep, that can worsen the inattention or anxiety symptoms.

And then, you know, and it’s like this snowball of not goodness.

Kristen Stuppy (20:40)

Right. They all like to play together, which is not healthy for us.

Dr. Matt Lindquist (20:45)

It’s not

great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s like the troublesome kids on the block and they just like, they just hang out together. And when one of them gets wild, the other, you know, the other two get like even more turned off. It’s, it’s rough.

Kristen Stuppy (20:56)

Yeah.

Sara Whelan (20:57)

You’ve emphasized genetics and individualized treatment in your work. Why is having a personalized approach especially important when ADHD is part of the picture?

Dr. Matt Lindquist (21:07)

Yeah, it’s a great question. one, I like to think about treatment over a long term. So I can teach a monkey how to help someone get 15, 20 pound weight loss in six months. Anyone with ill intentions and a script pad can probably accomplish that these days. But.

But one, we’ve known for years that if you find the right treatment for the right person, and kind of what we call like a phenotype, and so, you know, in this setting, I often worry about that kind of, you know, hedonic eating, so like more like emotional slash binge eating. Again, oftentimes associated with like ADHD or anxiety, they’re gonna respond much better to certain medications.

And then, you know, and then if you’re ADHD, then okay, if you’re not having great effects with your treatment, like, okay, are you forgetting your meds? You do you have troubles like planning the meals that we talked about, or are you just like, oh man, I forgot breakfast and lunch. And now, you know, it’s like, it’s just.

appetites off the rails in the evening and a binge. So it’s really important to get to those like fundamental things that are a barrier to you just taking care of your health. Because really the weight loss often is so, I mean, I wouldn’t say easy. The challenge is really like, how do we guide you to just have a healthy, you know, happy life? Like that’s...

That’s what I’m trying to get for or aim for for my patients. And you just can’t ignore something so foundational like ADHD.

Sara Whelan (22:51)

Yeah.

Kristen Stuppy (22:52)

Yeah, there’s

a lot of confusion and fear around medications, both for ADHD, weight management, and other things that have a lot of stigma attached to them. So how do you help patients think about the pharmacotherapy for obesity in a thoughtful and evidence-based way?

Dr. Matt Lindquist (23:05)

Yeah, great question. So one, think we have to do it. mean, it’s just humbly, it would be the first answer. And this kind of goes back to just understanding the genetics and the biology of all this. So I mean, as you all know, ADHD often doesn’t come out of nowhere. That’s, you know, we’ve.

find that somewhere in the family and obesity is very similar. so, I like to, one, just tie in that context and then I always ask about what are your goals? What are your goals in life? What are your goals for your health and life? And oftentimes that’s, you know,

By this time, they’re seeing me for a reason. And this is not about like you’re a failure or you can’t do it on your own. It’s just some disease states would need medications to have our healthiest life. And we have a lot of evidence with these medications, a lot of evidence of what happens if you don’t do them. So I just like to just.

paint that picture that it’s not, this is there for you, the goals that you told me about before I even met you, in your questionnaire, and it’s not a failure. It’d be like if you had cancer, or diabetes. We wouldn’t question, oh, why are you on meds? Well, yeah, I’ve got a disease that can cause problems. These are not, they’re different, but not that dramatically.

Sara Whelan (24:41)

So yeah, so helpful. And I know that for parents who may be listening and there are some light bulbs going off or going, hmm, this explains a lot about their own child or even, like we said, with families, it’s genetic themselves. What’s one shift in mindset or how they look at things that you hope that they can take away from our conversation today?

Dr. Matt Lindquist (25:03)

Ooh.

Yeah, you know, think one that, you know, again, this is is biologically based. But, you know, ADHD, anxiety, obesity. Does that mean you can’t control it? No. You know, there are a lot of things we can do to help to help all of them. But, you know, but also some people just need. The treatment. And.

and ideally someone that knows the disease state. get evidence-based experience guidance because they’re nuanced and they’re kind of difficult too.

Kristen Stuppy (25:39)

Yeah.

Sara Whelan (25:40)

think that’d be really so helpful in creating some hope for families, but also confidence, having a reliable, well-educated, knowledgeable physician to get guidance from. So can be hard to know where to go.

Dr. Matt Lindquist (25:56)

Not everyone has a Dr. Stuppy he as their pediatrician.

Sara Whelan (25:59)

Right.

Kristen Stuppy (26:00)

When

I do not do this, I’ve actually referred patients to you because it’s well outside my scope of practice. We all have to stay in our lanes. But I am very excited that you’re speaking with the ADHD parent group because I do think this is something that is very common, but not talked about. Again, this obesity medicine has even more stigma than ADHD. ADHD in some realms, there’s almost people like want to be.

Dr. Matt Lindquist (26:17)

Yeah.

Kristen Stuppy (26:26)

neurodivergent because it’s kind of that catchphrase right now. It’s kind of But nobody wants to be unhealthy. so I am very glad that you’re going to be speaking to our parent group on Tuesday, April 14th at 6.30, online Central Time. And without giving too much away, what are you most excited for parents to understand after hearing your talk? Why you’re tired and hungry? How the ADHD brain impacts weight, sleep, and binge eating?

Dr. Matt Lindquist (26:28)

Yeah, for sure.

Sara Whelan (26:29)

Dijour.

Dr. Matt Lindquist (26:48)

Man, I feel like the title, you know, does it. That’s what I’m excited about. No, you know, man, when I mentioned that to families in clinic, it’s like, the light bulb goes off. They’re like, I feel like you saw right through me. So, yeah, I think kind of painting that full picture of...

those unfortunate friends and how we can address them and identify any things that are making potentially all of them worse at the same time. yeah, I’m looking forward to it.

Sara Whelan (27:22)

to thank you so much for joining us today and for helping really bring clarity to a topic that’s often so overlooked.

Kristen Stuppy (27:31)

Yeah, I’m really looking forward to this conversation. Again, if you are interested, go to adhdkc.org and hit the events tab to learn more and sign up. It’s free and it will be on Tuesday, April 14th at 6.30 PM Central.

Dr. Matt Lindquist (27:31)

Yeah, pleasure. Pleasure being here.

All right, thanks for having me.

Kristen Stuppy (27:52)

Thank you.

🎥 Wired & Wiggly: Understanding Anxiety and ADHD in Kids
with pediatrician and childhood mental health advocate Dr. Natasha Burgert

Sara Whelan, our ADHDKC Parent Group volunteer coordinator, opened the evening by welcoming families and sharing a reminder of ADHDKC’s connection to CHADD — our national parent organization dedicated to evidence-based ADHD education and support. Then Dr. Burgert guided us through an engaging, fast-paced, and practical discussion designed with busy parents in mind.

💡 What You’ll Learn in This Recording

Dr. Burgert shares real-world insights from her work as a full-time pediatrician caring for children with ADHD, anxiety, and everyday pediatric challenges. In this talk, she explains:

• Why ADHD and anxiety often show up together — and how easily they can be confused

• How similar behaviors (like inattention, restlessness, or avoidance) can come from very different causes

• What’s happening in the brain — including executive function challenges vs. perceived threat responses

• Questions parents can use to better understand the why behind behaviors

• The importance of comprehensive evaluation and working with your pediatrician as a first step

• Evidence-based supports including therapy approaches, school accommodations, lifestyle foundations, and medication considerations

• Practical strategies for co-regulation, routines, sleep, and everyday family functioning

As Dr. Burgert reminds us, we aren’t treating “alphabet soup” — we’re supporting kids who are trying their best in a fast, loud world.

🧠 Want to Keep Learning?

Dr. Burgert also writes about ADHD, anxiety, and child mental health for parents and caregivers. You can explore more of her work in her Substack, starting with the article with this talk’s resources.

Dr. Natasha Burgert is KC Kids Doc.

Think Your Kid Has ADHD and Anxiety?

This post is not AI-generated. It’s really me…

Read more

4 months ago · 2 likes · Natasha Burgert, MD

💬 Stay Connected

We encourage you to explore upcoming ADHDKC events and parent group meetings — a welcoming space for learning, connection, and support.

ADHDKC Events

Thank you for being part of our ADHDKC community and for continuing to learn alongside us. We’re grateful you’re here.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to ADHDKC and Event Overview

02:06 Understanding ADHD and Anxiety: A Pediatrician’s Perspective

11:53 Diagnosis and Treatment: Navigating ADHD and Anxiety

19:12 Comprehensive Treatment Plans for ADHD and Anxiety

25:56 Treating ADHD and Anxiety Together

28:27 Understanding SSRIs and Their Role

33:09 Monitoring Medication and Adjustments

35:16 Common Questions About ADHD and Anxiety

39:31 Practical Strategies for Parents

45:38 Community Support and Resources

Instead of previewing an upcoming speaker, Kristen Stuppy, MD, FAAP, sits down with special guest Lindsey Lipsky, M.Ed, CNP, a longtime special education advocate and new ADHDKC Advisory Board member. Together, they talk about what families are really experiencing right now — the pressure, the chronic stress, and why supporting parents is just as important as supporting kids.

👉 You can:

• Watch the full video right here in this newsletter

• Watch on our YouTube channel

• Listen on your favorite podcast platform

💬 What You’ll Hear in This Episode

• Why community and connection matter so much for neurodivergent families

• The reality parents are facing right now — stress, burnout, and limited supports

• The science behind chronic stress and how it affects the body

• Why caring for yourself is not selfish — it’s foundational to supporting your kids

• A preview of the upcoming ADHDKC Parent Group talk:
  Parents Under Pressure: Strengthening Your Mental Health & Well-Being as a Caregiver

Lindsey also shares insights from her work supporting families and schools — and why spaces like ADHDKC are more important than ever.

📅 Join Us for the Upcoming ADHDKC Parent Group Event

Parents Under Pressure: Strengthening Your Mental Health & Well-Being as a Caregiver
Presented by Dr. Kristen Stuppy

🗓 Tuesday, March 10
🕡 6:30 PM
📍 In person at the Jewish Community Center (the J) -OR- 💻 Online
💲 Free & open to everyone — ADHDKC members, J members, and the general public in Kansas City and beyond

Save My Seat

During this session, you’ll learn:

• What chronic stress actually does to your body

• Why basic self-care strategies matter more than you think

• Practical ways to reduce overwhelm and strengthen resilience

• How to make small changes that support your mental and physical well-being

No diagnosis is required — if you’re a caregiver feeling pressure, you belong here.

👉 RSVP Here https://www.adhdkc.org/event-details/parents-under-pressure-strengthening-your-mental-health-well-being-as-a-caregiver

🤝 Why This Conversation Matters

Parents often feel like they have to handle everything alone — juggling work, school systems, therapies, and everyday life. This episode is a reminder that:

• You are not alone

• Your health matters too

• And support is available in this community

Thanks for being part of ADHDKC.
As always — take good care of yourselves. Parenting is hard, but you don’t have to do it alone.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to ADHD KC Conversations

01:38 Lindsay Lipsky: Advocate for Neurodivergent Families

03:09 The Importance of Community Support

06:36 Collaboration Between ADHDKC and Lindsay’s Work

11:18 Understanding Parental Stress

16:01 Empowering Parents: Tools for Mental Health

17:28 Event Details and Conclusion

Transcript

Kristen Stuppy (00:16)

Welcome back to ADHD KC Conversations. I’m Kristen Stuppy and I’m so glad you’re joining us. Each month we sit down with experts, parents, and individuals in the ADHD community to explore topics that make a real difference for families in the Kansas City area and beyond. Today, we’re changing it up a bit. Usually my co-host, Sara Whalen, and I talk with the upcoming ADHD KC parent group speaker so you can get to know them ahead of time. This week, Sara couldn’t join us.

And since I’m actually the one doing the next ADHDKC parent group talk on March 10th, and you already know me from hosting this podcast and other talks, I thought we’d flip the script. Instead of interviewing a future speaker, I invited someone who’s become a really meaningful connection for me, Lindsay Lipsky. And Lindsay introduced herself to me at the International ADHD Conference back in November, and later invited me to speak at a parent group event at the Jewish Community Center, locally known as the J.

and I’m excited to use this wonderful space at the J for this upcoming talk. So just to be clear, all members of the Jewish Community Center and ADHDKC and just the general public are welcome. And this event will be both in person and online. And today I wanted to ask Lindsay about her work, and then I’ve asked her to turn the tables and ask me why I wanted to talk about something that so many parents are feeling right now, being under pressure, what chronic stress does to our bodies, and what parents can actually do about it.

So Lindsay, I’m really glad that you’re here and welcome to the podcast.

Lindsey (01:41)

Thank you, thank you for having me. It’s an honor to be here and Dr. Stuppy have known you for a long time and you’re famous to me, so thank you. Yeah, thanks, thanks.

Kristen Stuppy (01:54)

So to start us off, can you tell our listeners a little bit about who you are?

Lindsey (01:57)

Yeah, so I actually run a program in the Jewish community that helps support kids and families that have disabilities have access to our community. I’ve been a special education advocate for almost 20 years now and have worked in the field and more specifically now with ⁓ kiddos that are neurodivergent who have ADHD, autism, and other learning disabilities.

Kristen Stuppy (02:23)

So what kinds of things do you see coming up again and again when parents walk through your door?

Lindsey (02:27)

Yeah, so a lot of the parents that I work with, they are coming to me to seek community. So a lot of them, you know, the Jewish community is really small and our issues are no different than any other community. So oftentimes when they are coming through my door, they’re feeling really lost. And so often they are looking for just connection, resources and supports.

just another ear to hear what’s going on in their lives and to help troubleshoot issues that arise from parenting our neurodivergent kiddos. And it is a really humbling experience just to be on that journey helping them.

Kristen Stuppy (03:09)

That is wonderful. What kind of themes do you see when parents come in to your office again and again?

Lindsey (03:15)

So a lot of what I see is just parents that are looking for connection, parents that are looking for resources and supports, sometimes just to listen to them. As your talk, I’m sure, is gonna talk about parenting kids that are neurodivergent is not for the faint of heart. Oftentimes, it can be challenging.

And so I think really having the ability to talk to each other and problem solve is really the meat of what I see when I’m working with families.

Kristen Stuppy (03:47)

I think that’s very helpful and parents do need that support. I know you and I first officially met and talked at the International ADHD Conference in November in Kansas City. But since then, we’ve had several conversations and it’s been really clear how passionate you are about supporting families with neurodivergent children and the whole ADHD community. In fact, I’m so excited that you’re joining ADHDKC’s advisory board. What drew you to ADHDKC and what made you want to be involved?

Lindsey (04:14)

Well, I’ve again just been a lifelong advocate for individuals with disabilities. More recently, I have a personal connection with ADHD. It’s in our family system. so navigating that complex process has really brought me closer. I think it’s interesting that when you’re a special educator and I’ve worked on so many individual education plans, IEPs, 504 plans,

And then suddenly when you’re on the other side of that table, when you’re a parent, and suddenly, you know, the script has flipped a bit, and suddenly you realize that this is hard, this is really hard. And I really feel strongly that, you know, we’re better together, and I think the work that ADHDKC does is really important for our community.

Kristen Stuppy (05:02)

So of course the theme now is the script being flipped because we’re gonna have you interview me here flipping the script for the whole podcast. And then you just talking about how your personal life it’s been affected. And it is so very different as a professional who’s used to the system seeing how it works from the other side. So yeah, I think that’s very interesting for me as a parent of a child.

Lindsey (05:11)

There we go.

Kristen Stuppy (05:27)

now young adults with ADHD. I do remember those days of trying to get all of the knowledge I knew from the other side to work with what my own child needed. So how does the mission of ADHDKC align with the work you’re already doing?

Lindsey (05:41)

So a lot of the work that I do right now is supporting schools and systems and programs to just be more accepting and understanding. You know, the whole neurodiversity movement has been really impactful, I think, for the community and understanding that people that have ADHD really bring a wide array of strengths. So a lot of the work that I do now involves training and consulting with school teams and with programs.

⁓ just so that they understand that we are better with our individuals that have ADHD in our community. And I also work with families that of course are just running through situations that ⁓ are complicated. So I think especially because ADHD KC is such a strong chapter, was really drawn to this work and really

I’m really honored that I get to join and help support you guys in this important endeavor.

Kristen Stuppy (06:36)

think we’re excited to be able to join with your group as well and offer things to a larger community. I think, unfortunately, funding for many groups that provide services. know CHADD in general has lost some funding that was provided through the CDC in the past. And I feel like it’s harder to reach people due to some of these cuts. So it’s going to be really important to be able to support families where they are.

Lindsey (06:40)

Haha.

Kristen Stuppy (07:03)

with less. So I think that we’ll be able to help each other with both of our groups from there. So have you in the past or looking forward to the future worked with parent groups and how do you feel like those help your community?

Lindsey (07:17)

Yeah, so through the work I do, we actually used to have a parent support group that actually did lose funding and that isn’t a part of our program offerings. And I think it is really important and really impactful for people that are experiencing similar situations, are in similar life stages to come together and there’s really a beauty in bringing people that are struggling.

or that just are looking for, you know, have questions together. And in our community, I think what people tend to forget is that when we lose funding on things, it affects, it has reverberating effects. I think, you know, right now, especially, we’re gonna see just a lot more things coming down the pike in special education that people don’t.

don’t quite understand that, you know, if things are taken away today, what that’s gonna look like in a year from now, in three years from now, in 30 years from now. You know, like things that happen today impact our kids for the future. And so, you know, I know that like we’re not necessarily talking about funding, but it’s really important for spaces

like parent support groups, and just our general programs that are helping support our families and helping support kids that have disabilities that they still are able to access resources. I think it’s really important with even limited funding and limited support that these still happen.

Kristen Stuppy (08:45)

Yeah, have parents ever told you that they’re pieces when supports grow away?

Lindsey (08:52)

yeah. And I think actually what ends up happening is they don’t even realize that it’s gone away. And so that’s, know, for example, when we stopped our parent support group, I still had people reaching out and saying, hey, are we still, is this still happening? Is this something that we’re still doing? And it just goes away, right? And so I think that people don’t know.

People don’t necessarily recognize until it’s much later that these supports and services are not there. And there’s an impact with that.

Kristen Stuppy (09:22)

And I think it’s going to go beyond the families that use the services directly. It will affect the children who aren’t necessarily using any of these special education services because there will be time and energy that the teachers were no longer able to spend with them too. I think it will have ripple effects with all of the kids at schools. So that’s why I am excited that our two groups can come together and use resources shared.

Lindsey (09:43)

Yeah, I mean.

Yeah, and so much of the work that you guys do has no cost. And so that’s what’s really important. think sometimes people don’t even realize that when we ask parents to pay an additional fee to attend something, that’s a barrier in itself, right? So as a mom, I have three young kids that are under the age of eight. We’re doing lots of different supports. just dyslexia tutors.

occupational therapy, speech language therapy, those are all added costs that parents are absorbing, you know, and we’re not necessarily signing up for, you know, soccer after school or doing those things. We’re doing these supports and therapies for our families. And I feel like when we can offer things free of charge, we’re just, giving that benefit to our community in ways that maybe

you don’t realize.

Kristen Stuppy (10:39)

I a lot of families who have children with any kind of chronic condition, whether it’s like you mentioned, dyslexia, other learning disabilities, or health chronic conditions, they do need to spend more money doing things. So I don’t want to get this on a downer side. Maybe this is a good time to maybe flip some roles. Have you interviewed me about the talk because it’s not about finances. I want people to come and enjoy and learn and

Lindsey (10:57)

For sure. Yeah!

Kristen Stuppy (11:04)

not worry about the cost of living.

Lindsey (11:07)

I agree, yeah. Okay, so you titled this talk, Parents Under Pressure, Strengthening Your Mental Health and Well-being as a Caregiver. Why did you choose this topic? Why now?

Kristen Stuppy (11:19)

So this topic actually is a redo of something that I previously did after the former Surgeon General came out with a ⁓ guideline for stress and noting that Parents have more stress than other adults that do not have children. And then of course, in the ADHD KC space, parents of kids with neurodivergence have more stress -

there’s more things going on that they need to try to wrangle up and deal with and manage. And there’s just a lot. And I definitely remember as my children were growing up, how hard it was to juggle parenting and work and trying to do social things and other events. It’s just a lot. And so I want parents to know, number one, they’re not alone. And then also to...

learn that they can do some things that are maybe surface level obvious, but help them understand the importance of doing it and maybe motivate them to get some of this stuff done.

Lindsey (12:24)

I love that. So when parents hear the word stress, we often think of like emotions. But in this talk, you focus a lot on what stress does to the body. Why is that an important shift?

Kristen Stuppy (12:36)

I feel like a lot of times when physicians or therapists or other professionals tell people to do the basic things like get more sleep or eat healthy or get exercise, these are all foundational things that we all need that help our physical body manage stress. But I feel like people dismiss it because they don’t really understand the why behind it.

And if you understand the why, hope is that you will make it more of a priority. And our mind body is connected. Anyone who tells you otherwise just doesn’t really understand. There is a very strong mind body connection. So it’s not all about pills that will fix things.

Lindsey (13:14)

Yeah.

I couldn’t agree more. Well, and you’re a pediatrician, a great one, what made you want to talk to the parents about themselves rather than about kids?

Kristen Stuppy (13:25)

You know, this isn’t very much a shift for me, because even in my practice, when I’m working with families, I do talk to parents a lot about their own conditions and things that might impact their ability to parent. It is very prominent. If you’ve been to the doctor’s office in the last year or two, you have probably filled out what’s called a social determinant of health questionnaire because

All of us are supposed to be talking about, you afford your food? Can you afford your medication? Are you safe in the home? Do you have a home? All of these things, because these do impact the family’s safety, health, well-being. So it’s not too much of a stretch to consider this. And I want children to be in safe and supportive homes. And if parents are not in a mentally healthy place and they’re overstressed, overextended, they’re not going to be the

the best parents for their children. it really does all tie in. The family unit is important.

Lindsey (14:21)

Yeah, that’s so important. So many parents feel like they should be able to handle everything, myself included. How does that belief actually make stress worse?

Kristen Stuppy (14:31)

You know, I lived this. ⁓ I wasn’t diagnosed with ADHD myself until I was in my fifties. And looking back, it was so very clear, but I think like many people who have ADHD, they have to always be doing something. And if they’re not doing something, they’re bored and boredom is not a good place to be when you have ADHD. So I have always from the time I was at least in high school.

Lindsey (14:33)

Yeah

Kristen Stuppy (14:56)

overextended myself. I wanted to stay busy and I got more done if I was busy. And I think to some extent, families, parents have to do that because kids are, they have to get to school, they have to be fed, they have to go to their activities, they need help with homework, whatever it is, parents want to do everything. And they always look at the other parents like, well, she’s able to be the volunteer for this and hold down a full-time job and do all these other things. So there’s that.

Well, if she can do it, I can do it mentality. And you’re laughing. feel like you appreciate this, right? Like we all.

Lindsey (15:27)

I understand, but they they say

comparison is the thief of joy. but it happens. Yes.

Kristen Stuppy (15:32)

Yes, that’s a great quote though. Comparison is the thief of joy. I like that.

So I do feel like parents feel like they should be able to do this, but we have to get out of the show to what it could is and be kind to ourself, practice self-care because that is not something that we can avoid. We need self-care. It’s not selfish to be good to ourselves.

Lindsey (15:53)

Yeah, I love that. So without giving away the whole talk, what are a few things parents will walk away with after attending this session?

Kristen Stuppy (16:01)

Well, I will warn everybody, the talk does start off with a lot of what we are seeing or what our bodies feel and how our bodies react. So there’s a lot of sciency kind of stuff, because I’m a science geek, about our heart, our lungs, our immune system, everything about how stress affects it. Because again, I want people to understand that. But then we’re going to talk about things that you can do to help with this stuff.

So I hope that parents leave feeling empowered and enlightened and wanting to make some changes.

Lindsey (16:33)

I love that. I’m really excited. For parents listening who are thinking, identify with this, but I’m just too exhausted and I don’t have time for one more thing. What do you want them to hear?

Kristen Stuppy (16:45)

you know, that might be the thing that you say no to. And it is okay to say no to one more thing if it’s not time for you to deal with this, but you do need to make time. You know, they always say if you don’t have time to do the things that are good for you, then you need to make the time to do them. So at some point you need to sit down and figure out what can you drop from all the things that you do that aren’t giving you joy, aren’t benefiting your

family or you personally because we are all overextended and we need to sometimes cut that back.

Lindsey (17:15)

but also try to come to see Dr. Steppi’s talk because it’s gonna be great. Just take out something else that you’re doing that you can say no to. No, I’m just kidding. Thank you, I loved interviewing you. That was super fun.

Kristen Stuppy (17:26)

Yeah, it was fun. Yeah,

So before we wrap up, just want to make sure everyone knows how to join us. We’ve been talking about this event. is Parents Under Pressure, Strengthening Your Mental Health and Well-being as a Caregiver. It’s going to be Tuesday, March 10th at 6.30, both in person at the J and online. Everyone is welcome. It’s free to attend. And you don’t have to have any sort of diagnosis or anything official. Just come.

Find details and registration at adhdkc.org under the events tab. And Lindsay, if listeners want to learn more about you and your work, where should they go?

Lindsey (18:02)

Well, they can email me anytime. Lindsay.Lipski at gmail.com. The work that we do in the Jewish community is listed ⁓ under Jewish Federation at sassown.org.

Kristen Stuppy (18:14)

All right, and I will also add that since Lindsay is joining the ADHDKC board, she is listed on the About Us page, and I believe that links to her LinkedIn so you can learn about her. right, so thank you so much for joining me today and being part of the reason this conversation is happening at all.

Lindsey (18:26)

Wow, thanks.

Thank you, we’re so excited to have you and I’m really looking forward to this discussion.

Kristen Stuppy (18:37)

And to all of our listeners, thank you for being here. If this episode resonated with you, consider joining us for the parent group talk. And as always, take good care of yourselves. Parenting is hard, but you don’t have to do it alone.

From the very beginning, you can hear Sean’s deep commitment to helping students succeed. His background in special education gives him a grounded, real-world perspective that parents and teens alike can benefit from.

What Sean Covered

A Framework for Supporting Students with ADHD – CHASE
Sean introduced his CHASE framework, designed to address the unique challenges students with ADHD face and to offer practical, realistic supports. He emphasized the critical role of executive function skills in student success and shared ways parents and educators can help students manage schoolwork more effectively.

Understanding the “CHASE Cycle”
Sean described how many students begin a semester motivated and hopeful, only to become overwhelmed as missing assignments pile up and stress increases.

Helping Students Engage Teachers Effectively
One highlight was Sean’s “Managing Your Bosses” strategy, which helps students proactively work with teachers instead of avoiding them.

He shared:

• A goal-setting template for early-in-the-semester conversations

• The PING email framework (Pleasant Introduction, Inform/Inquire, Negotiate a Plan, End with Gratitude)

  

• Why email templates can reduce anxiety and improve follow-through—for students and adults

Academic Management & Family Support
Sean walked through tools and strategies to help students:

• Organize assignments across multiple platforms using a student dashboard

• Prioritize tasks when everything feels urgent

• Benefit from family team meetings that build collective efficacy when simple organization isn’t enough

  

He also outlined what support looks like at different stages of academic struggle—from the alert phase to the exhaustion phase—and how parents can respond without escalating burnout.

Executive Function Strategies That Actually Help
Sean shared practical advice on:

• Negotiating plans with teachers

• Using visual organizers

• Reducing burnout

• Acknowledging ADHD openly

• Shifting toward process praise rather than outcome-only praise

Resources Shared

Sean generously shared a document packed with resources that parents can explore on their own or together with their teen:

Get the Packet of Resources

He also shared some pages of his website that covers some of the questions raised:

• How to advocate for executive function coaching services (as part of the IEP)

• How to Help Students With ADHD Keep Their Backpack C.L.E.A.N.

• Search for articles by subject

• Student Dashboard / Digital Planner

• Printables

He mentioned Jessica McCabe as an influencer with data-based strategies. Find her on How to ADHD.

If you’re supporting a student who is overwhelmed, burned out, or struggling to keep up despite “trying hard,” this recording offers concrete tools and a compassionate roadmap forward.

Featuring Dr. Natasha Burgert, MD, FAAP
Hosted by Dr. Kristen Stuppy & Sara Whelan

We’re excited to share the newest episode of ADHD KC Conversations, where Dr. Kristen Stuppy and Sara Whelan sit down with pediatrician, author, and child-mental-health advocate Dr. Natasha Burgert, MD, FAAP for a powerful and practical conversation about ADHD, anxiety, and the kids who experience both.

If you’ve ever wondered:

• How early can ADHD or anxiety show up?

• How can you tell whether a child’s inattention is from worry or distraction?

• What daily routines actually help anxious and wiggly brains?

• Do ADHD medicines make anxiety better (or worse)?

…this episode is packed with insight, clarity, and the calm, practical wisdom every parent deserves.

🎙️ Episode Highlights

👉 Anxiety and ADHD often show up together.
Dr. Burgert explains why these two “best buddies” frequently overlap in developing brains — and why some worries are normal and expected as kids grow.

👉 How to tell the difference between anxious inattention and ADHD inattention.
She shares simple, real-world questions she uses in practice to help families and kids figure out what’s really driving those “zoned out” moments.

👉 Why treating one condition can help the other.
She discusses what she sees in practice: treating ADHD often reduces anxiety and treating anxiety often improves attention.

👉 How to know if therapy or medication is working.
It’s not just about rating scales; it’s about real life. Are mornings smoother? Are transitions easier? Are they more willing to use checklists or follow routines? These daily wins matter just as much as any score.

👉 A sneak peek of her upcoming ADHDKC event.
Dr. Burgert will be sharing even more practical strategies in her free upcoming talk:
Worried and Wiggly: Understanding ADHD & Anxiety in Kids
📅 Tuesday, February 10
🕢 6:30 PM CT
💻 Online & free to all
Register at ADHDKC.org → Events or hit the button below!

RSVP

🎧 Listen Now

Don’t miss this warm, validating, and deeply useful conversation.
Tune in to the new episode of ADHD KC Conversations wherever you listen to podcasts.

*Don’t forget to add us to your favorites!*

💙 Stay Connected

Follow ADHDKC on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn to keep up with upcoming events, resources, and more conversations designed to support families raising neurodivergent kids.

Find Dr. Burgert on socials:

• Substack:

• Instagram: @kckidsdoc

Thanks for being part of our community — and stay curious.

If you’re parenting a tween or teen who struggles with organization, time management, follow-through, or transitions, this talk is packed with practical, realistic strategies you can start using right away.

What Becky Covered (and Why It Matters)

Becky focused on how executive functioning is a skill set that has to be taught and practiced, not a character flaw or a lack of motivation. She emphasized that ADHD isn’t about knowing what to do—it’s about being able to do it at the right time, in the right way.

Key takeaways include:

• Executive function = the brain’s “air traffic control system”
  Skills like planning, task initiation, working memory, time awareness, self-monitoring, and organization all fall under executive function—and they impact everything from homework to morning routines to emotional regulation.

• Exposure is not the same as learning
  Just because a system works for adults doesn’t mean teens know how to use it. Systems must be explicitly taught, practiced, and supported.

• The 3-step support cycle

  1. Build the structure (checklists, routines, zones, timers)

  2. Support the structure (modeling, prompts, co-doing—not taking over)

  3. Fade support over time as independence grows
     This cycle is dynamic—support may need to increase or decrease depending on the day.

• Daily and weekly planning for “future you”
  Co-creating checklists at the end of the day and previewing the week ahead helps reduce overwhelm, decision fatigue, and last-minute chaos.

• Launch pads and zones
  Designated spaces for backpacks, shoes, sports gear, and homework reduce lost items and stressful transitions. These systems work best when the whole family uses them, not just the teen with ADHD.

• Timers for open-ended time
  Teaching teens to use timers helps manage time blindness, especially during screen time, homework breaks, and evening routines.

• Natural consequences are powerful teachers
  Forgetting cleats or missing an assignment can be a learning opportunity—when followed by calm reflection and problem-solving, not rescue or shame.

• Judgment-free language matters
  Giving teens words like “my brain glitched today” instead of “I failed” helps build self-awareness, resilience, and long-term independence.

This recording is especially helpful if you’re trying to figure out how to support your teen without constant reminders, nagging, or power struggles.

Your feedback is requested

At the end of her talk, Becky shared how valuable your feedback is in shaping future sessions. Please take a moment to complete the brief survey using the link below that she provided. Your voice truly helps guide what we do next.

Survey for Becky

📅 Don’t Miss What’s Coming Next

We have many upcoming ADHDKC events for parents, teens, and adults. Be sure to check our events page so you don’t miss topics that matter to your family.

ADHDKC Events

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Becoming a site member also gives you access to one or more of our online ADHDKC communities, which:

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Once logged in, you can join discussions, access content, and participate in our online groups in a more private, community-centered space.

Thank you for being part of ADHDKC and for continuing to show up for your kids—and yourselves. 💙

Ever notice how hard it can be to stay focused these days — especially for teens? In our latest ADHD KC Conversations episode, we dive into the fascinating (and sometimes frustrating) intersection of attention, technology, and the developing brain.

Our guest, Sean McCormick from Executive Function Specialists, joins us to unpack how today’s tech tools are designed to capture attention and deliver instant gratification — and what that means for teens whose brains are still developing self-regulation and planning skills. You’ll find that Sean shares a wealth of knowledge in this short podcast, and if you’re ready for more, sign up for his January Parent Group talk.

I want the link for January!

Whether you’re a parent, educator, or professional supporting youth with ADHD or executive dysfunction, you’ll gain valuable insights into:
✅ Why technology’s reward loops make sustained attention harder
✅ How reinforcement patterns shape motivation and focus
✅ What’s happening in the teen brain — and how development impacts executive functioning
✅ Strategies for helping teens build stronger long-term planning and attention skills

🧠 Key Takeaways:

• Technology’s design encourages short-term gratification

• The frontal lobe — responsible for planning and focus — continues to mature through the mid-20s

• Those with ADHD face added challenges but also unique opportunities to learn self-regulation strategies

• Understanding brain development helps us guide kids toward balance and better habits

💡 Resources from Sean:

• How to P.I.N.G. Your Teachers

• What Are Executive Functioning Skills?

• What to Expect from Your Student with ADHD This Semester (and How to Support Them)

• Visible Learning for Teachers by John Hattie (Amazon)

• Learn about Adele Diamond

Join us for this engaging discussion — and learn how to help your teen strengthen focus and balance in a world full of distractions.

Don’t forget to sign up to hear his ADHDKC Parent Group talk, “Creating a Blueprint for a Successful Semester for High School Students” to learn even more!

• When: Tuesday, January 13th, 2026 at 6:30 PM CST

• Cost: Free

• Who: Parents and Educators

• Online via Zoom

I want the link to join!

Dr. Danda explains that ADHD is often a regulation challenge rather than just an attention problem, and she offers clear, compassionate advice for preventing meltdowns, managing transitions, and fostering independence. You’ll learn how to use co-regulation, thoughtful communication, and visual supports to create a calmer, more connected home environment.

✨ Key takeaways include:

• Recognize and manage triggers to prevent meltdowns

• Use co-regulation to help kids regain balance

• Preview transitions and create stopping points

• Encourage independence through routines and consistency

🎥 Don’t miss the full conversation — it’s filled with real-life examples and actionable tools you can start using today!

You’ll see a banner of ADHDKC gear at one point — that’s to hide faces when attendees are shown to protect privacy. If you're interested in getting some cool ADHDKC merch, find what you’re looking for in our Store.

Every time you wear your ADHDKC hat or shirt, sip from your water bottle, jot notes in your branded notebook, or sport that sticker on your car—you’re doing more than showing spirit. You’re sending a quiet but powerful signal: You’re not alone.

Someone walking by might be struggling with ADHD and not know where to turn. Your gear could be the spark that leads them to our community, our resources, and maybe even a little hope. So rock that swag proudly — it’s advocacy in action, and it might just change someone’s day.

Store

No Parent Group Event in November Due to the 2025 International ADHD Conference

Are you going to the International ADHD Conference?

Get on the app to start “meeting” people now!

The International Conference on ADHD brings together the best minds in current research and treatment options and professionals offering best practice guidelines for their fields. The conference will offer dynamic sessions and events featuring practical support and guidance for adults and families.

Once you register, you’ll be invited to download the app, which is where you can select the sessions you want to attend, see slides, and connect with others. There’s already a great conversation going on about special interest meet-ups (rock-climbing, anyone?). As a local, you can help those with questions about KC.

Early-Bird Registration is OPEN now! CHADD members will receive a discount, so join CHADD today and designate ADHDKC as your local chapter. Register at CHADD.org/Membership. Be sure to name ADHDKC as your chapter to help support us!

📣 Volunteers Wanted: Join Us at ADHD2025!

We’re excited to invite dedicated and passionate individuals to serve as volunteers for the 2025 International Conference on ADHD, November 13–15 in Kansas City, MO. Volunteers are essential to making the event a warm, welcoming, and smoothly run experience for all attendees.

Why Volunteer?

• Play a vital role in conference operations (e.g. registration, wayfinding, conference-ambassador duties, staffing the bookstore)

• Receive a financial incentive if you serve in certain on-site roles (such as bookstore staffing or ambassador duties)

• Connect with speakers, attendees, and fellow volunteers in a meaningful and community-building way

• Gain behind-the-scenes insight into how an international conference is staged and run

Important Volunteer Requirements & Details

• You must be registered for ADHD2025 to volunteer.

• Opportunities are limited and on-site only.

• All volunteers must sign a Volunteer Agreement Form.

• For questions or concerns, reach out to conferences@chadd.org

If you’re ready to help make ADHD2025 an outstanding experience for all, please submit a volunteer form (with your name, contact details, and interest) through the conference site. We deeply appreciate your willingness to help and look forward to working together to Connect, Learn & Thrive at this year’s gathering.

I'm Interested in Volunteering!

🌎 Looking for more ADHD events?

CHADD now has a National Event Calendar where chapters across the country post their online events — and everyone is welcome to join!

👉 Explore upcoming programs, talks, and support opportunities here: CHADD National Event Calendar

CHADD National Events Calendar

Together, they explore the challenges and joys of parenting kids with ADHD, with a special focus on self-care for parents, emotional regulation in children, and practical strategies to reduce conflict at home.

Dr. Danda emphasizes the importance of having patient, supportive adults in a child’s life—and how small daily shifts can make a big difference.

Watch here or listen on your favorite podcast player!

Key Takeaways

• Self-care is crucial for parents managing ADHD challenges.

• Emotion regulation is often overlooked in ADHD diagnoses.

• Parenting is a long-term journey requiring patience.

• Modeling emotional regulation helps children learn.

• Celebrate wins and focus on the positives.

• Consistency matters — even though strategies won’t work every time.

• Create pauses in the day for both parents and kids.

• Pay attention to children’s needs after school or activities.

• Supportive adults help build resilience in kids.

🌟 Don’t Miss Dr. Danda’s Upcoming Talk!

Dr. Danda will be joining the ADHDKC Parent Group in October:

Front-End Strategies to Avoid Power Struggles and Meltdowns

🗓️ Date: Tuesday, October 14

🕡 Time: 6:30 PM Central Time

🌐 Location: Online via Zoom

🎟️ Cost: Free

Sign up for October's Talk

We’re so excited to introduce you to Dr. Bauer in our latest episode of ADHD KC Conversations! In this episode, hosts Kristen Stuppy, Lauren Dreher, and Sara Whelan sit down with Dr. Bauer.

Dr. Bauer opens up about her journey into behavioral pediatrics and how it led her to create the engaging TEACH Me ADHD program. She shares powerful insights into the importance of family involvement in ADHD education, the gaps that still exist — especially for girls and teens — and what parents can do to better support their children. She’ll talk even more about this at the September ADHDKC Parent Group Event.

If you have a child who struggles and you’re considering ADHD as a diagnosis, think you yourself may have ADHD but have never been diagnosed, or you or your family member have been struggling with low self-esteem, anxiety, or depression and treatments aren’t working — this upcoming Parent Group Event is just for you! Dr. Bauer will present Anxiety and ADHD in Girls: Tips on Earlier Identification and Empowerment.

Learn More and RSVP for September

Whether you’re new to ADHD or have been navigating it for years, this conversation is filled with encouragement, practical takeaways, and a sense of hope. You’ll get to know Dr. Bauer before her main talk in September.

She also shared that she’ll be speaking at the International ADHD Conference in November. If you haven’t gotten your ticket yet, Super-Early-Bird Pricing ends soon so get your ticket!

International ADHD Conference

🎧 Listen now and be inspired!

Find Dr. Bauer Online

TEACH Me ADHD Information

Facebook: @LetsTalkKidsHealth

Instagram: @letstalkkidshealth

ADHD Mom Docs Podcast - Dr Nerissa Bauer and Dr Jennifer Dilts

YouTube: NerissaBauerMD

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to ADHD KC Conversations

01:57 Dr. Nerissa Bauer's Journey in Behavioral Pediatrics

03:22 Overview of TEACH Me ADHD Program

09:00 Feedback and Impact of TEACH Me ADHD

11:44 Identifying Gaps in ADHD Support

16:28 Importance of Early Identification in Girls and Teens

21:05 Encouragement for Parents Facing Overwhelm

23:49 ADHDKC Conversations Podcast Nerissa Bauer outro.mp4

Don’t worry — we’ve got you covered!

The full recording of "Managing ADHD Medication Side Effects" is now available to watch on demand or to listen on Spotify.

In this informative session, ADHDKC’s own Dr. Kristen Stuppy discusses how to recognize, prevent, and manage the most common side effects of ADHD medications — including appetite changes, sleep problems, emotional shifts, and more. Whether your child has just started medication or you’ve been navigating treatment for years, this talk offers practical guidance and reassurance.

🧠✨ You’ll learn:

• A general overview of the medications used to treat ADHD

• What to expect when starting or changing ADHD meds

• Tips to manage appetite suppression, trouble sleeping, moodiness, and more

• Risks of not treating ADHD adequately

• What to discuss with your prescriber

In the talk, Dr Stuppy encourages everyone to listen to Mind Tricks to Improve Focus and Calm Your Brain to learn more about mindfulness.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Setting the Stage

00:16 Understanding ADHD and Its Treatment

12:56 Exploring Medications Used for ADHD

20:24 Navigating Appetite Changes

25:36 Sleep Challenges and Solutions for ADHD

26:03 Side Effects and Management Strategies

34:31 The Role of Melatonin and Relaxation Techniques

41:21 Managing Mood Changes and Emotional Regulation

50:05 The Risks of Untreated ADHD and Medication Misuse

Coming Soon!

👉 As always, our events are completely FREE and open to everyone who wants to learn, connect, and grow with us.

Up next for our Parent Group: mark your calendars for September, when the incredible Dr. Nerissa Bauer will be leading a powerful session on Anxiety and ADHD in girls — you won't want to miss it!

💬 Plus, all of our groups have a variety of engaging topics coming your way! Take a peek at the image below for all the details, and don't forget to keep an eye on our event page... there’s always something exciting on the horizon!

In this insightful session, Bronwyn Foley explores how fears, bedtime resistance, and nightmares can overwhelm children with ADHD — and what you can do to help.

🎤 Bronwyn walks parents through:

• Why ADHD brains are more prone to nighttime fears and anxiety

• How co-regulation leads to self-regulation over time

• What not to say during a nighttime meltdown

• Gentle strategies to build your child's emotional safety

• How to help your child feel more confident and in control

Whether your child resists bedtime, fears the dark, or wakes up from nightmares, this talk offers practical tools and compassionate insights to help your family rest easier.

🔗 Watch the recording above and access the transcript below.

🎧You can also play this in your favorite podcast player — look for ADHD KC Conversations or find the link above.

Don’t forget to share with other caregivers who could use some nighttime support!

Resources mentioned in this talk

ADHD 2.0 by Drs Ned Hallowell and John Ratey

Attention Magazine

Chapters

• 00:00 The Role of Imagination in ADHD

• 00:20 ADHD Coaching and Community Engagement

• 10:33 Understanding the ADHD Brain

• 13:26 The Importance of Sleep in ADHD

• 20:57 Creating a Sleep-Friendly Environment

• 24:14 Daytime Engagement and Physical Activity

• 27:01 Co-Regulation and Emotional Support

• 32:52 Self-Regulation Strategies for ADHD

• 35:40 Bedtime Routines and Positive Reinforcement

• 41:09 Navigating Fears and Imagination at Night

• 43:56 Parenting Strategies for Sleep Challenges

Transcript

This is AI generated - please excuse the errors!

Sara Whelan (00:05)

Hello everyone. Welcome. We're so glad you could join us tonight. I'm Sara Whelan and I am the parent group coordinator, a volunteer for AHDKC and I'm excited to get this talk going tonight. Before I introduce our speaker, just a few housekeeping notes. A reminder that our chapter ADHDKC is a CHADD chapter. And we wanted you to know that if you are in the KC area and would like to have a chance to win a one year CHADD membership, go ahead and put your name and your email in our chat box and

you, we will pick. And if you win that and you also want to come to, as we're showing here, plugging our international conference that just so happens to be coming to Kansas City in November. If you are a CHADD member, you get a discount on that as well. We're very excited to have this event so close here to home and we'd love to have you join us.

Let's see. We've been around for a while. And in case you, if this is the first time joining, this is the parent group, but we also have a teen group, a women's group, a general adults group, lots of different ways to get resources and join, all very popular and they're all on our website. And you just RSVP sign up -- some of them are in person and some are online.

Alright, well, let me switch slides here. Bronwyn, would you like me to share your slides or do you want to? Okay, I will.

Bronwyn Foley (01:53)

Thank Here we go. All right. So hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining. It's my pleasure to be here. I'm so honored to be included in your community. My name is Bronwyn Foley, and I am an ADHD coach out of Naperville, Illinois. Six hours north.

Sara Whelan (01:56)

All

So.

And I have

Bronwyn Foley (02:19)

been given this opportunity to talk about this unique topic. It has really been an honor and a privilege to think it through even further because I've worked on this with my clients and my own children.

Sara Whelan (02:33)

and

Bronwyn Foley (02:34)

It has so much potential for understanding the ADHD brain, developing inner resources to capitalize on the potential of the brain. So bedtime resistance, fears and nightmares before you even close your eyes. That's a thing for a lot of ADHD kiddos and for some adults actually too. That was the other reason that I was so inspired recently as I was seeing this through line of...

Sara Whelan (02:39)

and resources.

Bronwyn Foley (03:02)

adults talking about how there's like bedtime resistance, there is this things don't seem to be going well. Things go dark and that brain just runs ahead and starts creating these stories. And it can be challenging to silence that or to discern reality from those stories. So I open with this quote.

Speaker 3 (03:16)

channel.

Sara Whelan (03:24)

I

Bronwyn Foley (03:27)

from Dr. Barbara Tversky. I probably should have opened with Dr. Barbara Tversky. She's a professor at Stanford who wrote a book called Mind in Motion. And she has her nine laws of cognition that I have up here on my bulletin board. And one of them is when thought overflows the mind, the mind puts it in the world. And in my estimation, this is, this was not written for ADHD, but in my estimation, this is such a beautiful depiction of how what is imagined

Sara Whelan (03:43)

over

Bronwyn Foley (03:56)

can take on the salience of something that's real, which is what kids are dealing with when they are so scared to go to.

Sara Whelan (04:07)

Okay.

Bronwyn Foley (04:08)

So quick introduction, coach for five years. You know I'm in Naperville. I work with ADHD impacted families, business leaders. I do love those entrepreneurs. So fun. I'm credentialed by the International Coaching Federation and by the ADD Coach Academy. I'm also adult and youth Colby certified. So I integrate strengths very tightly into my practice.

I have a positive psychology specialization and I have a Merit Institute self-reg certification. Also, I have an organization leadership masters and a BA in theater. I am a mom, so I may know something about this firsthand. have a 13 year old boy and a 16 year old girl. All right, so why this topic? Well, it's prevalent. It has come up quite a bit with my clients.

It seemed worthy of attention. I wasn't seeing a lot around this topic specifically, but it's very disruptive to families when sleep is disruptive. So, and the intensity of emotion that can come out of a child to a parent over this topic can be startling for a parent. Sleep is a prevalent ADHD issue.

Sara Whelan (05:05)

And I'm.

yeah.

Bronwyn Foley (05:32)

10 to 15 % of little kids, this is twice their typical, so have trouble getting to sleep. And by puberty, which is really where I see this hitting the most, around 12 and a half, 50 % of kids have difficulty falling asleep. This is not a monolith, not all the kids do. Some of them, their heads hit the pillow and they're out. But a lot of them have real struggles. Now, I polled one of my mentors and friends as Dr. Bill Dodson.

Sara Whelan (05:38)

And.

in.

Bronwyn Foley (06:01)

And he wrote an article for Attitude about why ADHDers are so tired all the time. Again, we're not always so tired all the time, but a lot of us are. And sleep was not included in DSM criteria.

Sara Whelan (06:14)

quite a while.

Bronwyn Foley (06:15)

because the DSM [4] required that all ADHD symptoms be present at the time someone was 7.

Sara Whelan (06:20)

seven.

However, as we

Bronwyn Foley (06:24)

see here, a lot of these symptoms kick off in puberty. So it would be overlooked. Also, the DSM is very committed to keeping things in tidy categories. I think of it as like a giant Excel spreadsheet. If it doesn't fit in the cell, then it's not going to make it to the DSM. And we all know emotional dysregulation is challenging for ADHDers, but for some reason, it just hasn't made

Sara Whelan (06:47)

to the DSM. ⁓

Bronwyn Foley (06:49)

So

largely sleep for the history of this has been seen as separate from ADHD, not just an expression of the ADHD brain. I'm gonna do a quick review of the ADHD brain, because context is so important, I want you to know where I'm coming from. This is really very quickly, broadly how I work. I have pulled from ADHD 2.0 and other resources.

Sara Whelan (06:54)

Brett.

Bronwyn Foley (07:18)

But ADHD 2.0 is one I can direct you to, Dr. Ned Hallowell and John Rady's book about the current state of ADHD thought and research. And what has been determined is that ADHDers, unlike neurotypicals, have more neural energy active at any given moment. So here's the deal. These two networks, brain networks that are implicated,

Task positive network is the network that identifies the tasks, decides it's important, initiates, gets it done, finishes the task, moves on. The default mode network is where a neurotypical, when they're done with the tasks, they don't have anything to do. You sit back into your relaxed state, your brain basically, your energy goes back to what's known as your default mode network or your conceptual brain, your imaginative state.

Sara Whelan (08:13)

My

Bronwyn Foley (08:13)

for the purposes, or we will for the purposes of this conversation. We're call it the imagination because we're talking about kids. And it's an easy thing for kids to perceive and understand. And it is also the seed of the imagination amongst many other things that it does. Neuro-typicals, they're asynchronous networks.

with ADHDers, it's been noticed that they're on together. So what we have are networks that are synchronous but are not necessarily synchronized. Does this make sense so far? If there are any questions, just throw them in the chat and we can talk about it. What this means that there's sort of a rivalry for our limited attention, and I'm going to say limited attention, I just want to be clear. Everyone's attention is limited. We only have 100 % of our own attention.

Sara Whelan (09:03)

limited.

you

Bronwyn Foley (09:07)

And with an ADHDer, when you are going through your day with these active networks, both trying to engage your attention, both trying to engage in your day, it can be baffling for the ADHD person, particularly the ADHD child. It's this sort of push and pull between the internal state and the external state.

Reality is created externally and then we include our internal information. But if you have your imagination active all the time.

Sara Whelan (09:46)

It might.

Bronwyn Foley (09:47)

your attention to an internal story about what's going on out here and it may not be accurate.

Sara Whelan (09:54)

So.

Bronwyn Foley (09:55)

If the

networks are on, they're looking for engagement in your day. And sometimes it will be at the expense of the owner of the brain. DMN can be very demanding. In fact, there are studies that show that kids with ADHD can have some hyperconnectivity in their default mode. Now this is seen as a problem, but I mean, it's the reality and so the lessons that they need

Sara Whelan (10:14)

work.

Bronwyn Foley (10:22)

for engagement are going to be different than the lessons that a neurotypical kid needs. So here's the thing. The imagination is active and it wants to be involved in the day.

Sara Whelan (10:33)

But it's not.

Bronwyn Foley (10:33)

necessarily

called upon to do very much.

Sara Whelan (10:36)

throughout the day.

Bronwyn Foley (10:38)

It is what we will sometimes refer to as stimulus star. It's looking for engagement. And that work done. So the question might be who's in charge? The imagination or the owner of the brain? Sometimes it can feel to the owner of the brain that they're being dragged around by their imagination versus them being the one who's setting the setting the

Sara Whelan (10:45)

for what that is.

Bronwyn Foley (11:04)

The plan.

Sara Whelan (11:05)

So.

Bronwyn Foley (11:07)

They're running two networks, a single network. Dr. Dawson has observed that HG brains reject secondary importance a lot of the time. And we actually live in a world that is, with second. Someone tells you what to do. Teacher tells the child what to do. They tell them when to do it. They tell them how to do it and tell them when to turn it in.

Sara Whelan (11:15)

It is.

complete, and very important.

the

And

Bronwyn Foley (11:37)

the

ADHD brain, this default mode network will reject.

Sara Whelan (11:41)

often.

Bronwyn Foley (11:42)

It will

be mystery to the brain owner. To keep this in mind, it looks like this willful misbehavior. But honestly, it's the owner of the brain receiving a message that this is not salient enough for my attention and energy, this thing that's being given me. First is unneurotypical. The lights are dark in their imagination.

You hand them the worksheet, they do the worksheet. Because that's what they've been told is important and they will receive that importance. Look at the things that seem to fire up ADHD-er. Purpose, novelty, interest, urgency, competition. I get a lot of adults into my Zoom room who are just exhausted at living with urgency. They need other ways to live. A lot of kids. I've had a kiddo.

who wanted to hold off on a book report until the last study hall of Friday when it was due and run it down the hall to his teacher just as she was leaving. And the parents were baffled. And I said, I think I know what he's doing. He's creating salience. His brain is saying, okay, I'll give you attention and energy for that because it has become urgent now. So the brain will

offer him what he needs to get it done. Okay, so this is a core feature. The ADHD, sleep is a core feature. Difficulties with sleep is a sign or a core feature of ADHD. This nervous system doesn't stop. It's 24-7. It's all the time.

Sara Whelan (13:17)

D.

Bronwyn Foley (13:26)

It doesn't turn off at night, and that's why we have to look at sleep as being, sleep challenges as being symptomatic or potentially symptomatic of ADHD. In coaching, we recognize the impact of transitions. So transitions are we're doing one thing, and now I'm gonna shift over and do this other thing. So if you have a list of steps,

Sara Whelan (13:45)

and

Bronwyn Foley (13:52)

go from the one thing to the next thing to the next thing and be able to transition in a timely manner. And sometimes this guy does not want to. So it can be very. Set shift. That shift is a little bigger. Let's back up. Set shifting is. Well, we're watching TV. And now it's time to turn off the TV and go up to bed.

Sara Whelan (13:58)

and

do that.

Bronwyn Foley (14:22)

That is a major shift in attention or I mean what am I talking about? I'm like aging myself because I was born in the previous century or we're playing a video game and it's time to turn off and do something else. You have to shift your attention and that for an ADHD or once their attention is once this guy is finally engaged you tell them you have to disengage.

It can feel very challenging. Difficulty down regulating on demand. So on demand from someone else, from a parent, from another person who wants to give direction. can be hard for an ADHD or to independently down regulate just because someone tells them they should. So the sun goes down. Now all day long.

Sara Whelan (15:02)

from an.

Bronwyn Foley (15:19)

The task positive network has gotten more attention than the default one. I mean, the task positive network has, you're able to, the ADHD kids are able to turn their attention out to the world around. Especially if we have a recurring bedtime fear. Something that makes a kiddo break out in hives. Something that makes a kiddo want to park themselves in their parents' room.

Sara Whelan (15:45)

floor.

Bronwyn Foley (15:47)

just different things that will come up with kids at night. Because here's the thing, the sun goes down, the ADHD brain seems to light up. Now I'm an ADHD person, I'm a mother of two with a business of my own, so those days are actually physically over for me. But I do relate to this when I was younger, that this was a thing. And I notice it in my clients and a lot of my adult clients too, that they...

The sun goes down and suddenly they get this burst of energy.

that's about but what I can say is that that the fears that are manifested before bedtime suddenly that default mode network doesn't have as many distractions and it can race forward and start to deliver that fear or that remember that stimulus star brain that guy who just wants something to do all the time well guess what

Sara Whelan (16:23)

Yes.

Bronwyn Foley (16:50)

There's no classroom, no teachers, you're alone in your room. It's his turn and he, this brain is looking for stimulus and without leadership, it may resist down regulating. It's a stimulus hungry imagination as runs away with your child's attention. Barbara Luther is the one of the founders of the ADD Coach Academy and she and I were recently talking about this topic. And I said, I feel like,

Some of my clients, their brains are really almost tormenting them. And she said, well, yes, because the brain wants what it wants, and it wants stimulus.

And if it doesn't have leadership or metacognitive direction, it's going to drag your little one around, potentially. All right. But before we get going on ADHD and how we're going to tackle that and help that brain get some direction and some adaptive stimulus, let's do a basic sleep inventory and uncover possible co-occurring challenges. For instance,

Sleep apnea. Kids with tonsils or adenoids. I was an inattentive child and then when I was six, I had to get my adenoids out because I was having sleep apnea as a little one. There is something truly to this. GERD, if they have reflux that can keep the kid up and if it keeps the kid up, they can't down regulate and settle.

Low ferritin. Low ferritin is positively correlated with ADHD, low iron. It can also be a source of restless leg syndrome. ADHD meds. There are some say if they are dosed correctly, they shouldn't keep you up. There are some who say that's not the case. You should be careful about meds. I will say this.

Sometimes folks will give Benadryl to kids to help them sleep. We don't want to do that. Yes, Sara, I agree. We don't want to do that because Benadryl is an acetylcholine blocker. Acetylcholine is what helps you make long-term memories. We don't want to introduce Benadryl. We want to avoid those over-the-counter corrections.

There is some talk about melatonin, like Attitude just did a podcast where this woman from Europe was talking about melatonin. Melatonin is regulated in Europe. It's not regulated here in the US. So when you buy melatonin over the counter, whatever amount it says, it's sort of like cross your fingers that that's actually what it is. Kristen, you know about this, right? I mean, you're a physician, so.

But some folks will say because there's something called DSPS or delayed sleep phase syndrome, that it's not a bad idea to give the tiniest amount of melatonin, this is going to be a judgment call as a family, to help the brain make the journey into deep sleep because your pineal gland actually releases endogenous melatonin.

But some folks suggest that additional melatonin is needed. However, I'm going to get to why I am suspicious of that in a slide. Chronic pain. A lot of ADHDers grind their teeth. Maybe a tooth cart is needed. And congestion. It's really dry sometimes in different rooms. And that kind of congestion can lead to sleep apnea. That's almost like your adenoids. So a humidifier, these basic things can be really helpful.

If you set the stage though, you set the stage for preparing for this transition and the set shift into transition into bedtime routine and the set shift into the sleep block of the day.

There are some logistics that I strongly endorse as a coach. And one is absolutely no screens in the bedroom. So when folks tell me they have computers in their kids' rooms, they can do whatever they want, obviously, but I heartily endorse getting that computer out of the child's room. We want to have a room with low distractions.

that is for sleeping, is soothing, that is for rest. The pull of video games and social media is so strong and it's designed to be strong. So I offer that our kids will always lose if they are faced with the decision around those, especially if they're alone at night, around those stimulus.

No electronics an hour before bedtime. Here's the thing about melatonin. We all within our natural sleep-wake cycle, we have our melatonin release and it helps let us know we're going to go to sleep. But blue light breaks down melatonin. So it destroys your natural melatonin. So no screens an hour before bedtime. Collect cell phones. You too, you have to stay off your cell phone as well. But that's okay because that's good for you.

And also cool temperatures. I can't tell you how many families have told me well my child's room is the warmest room in the house No, no, don't want that at all. If your child's having trouble sleeping you want it to be 67 or 68 degrees It needs to be cold because the body temperature goes down two to three degrees as we move into deep sleep No, need two hours before bed. This is idiosyncratic. Some people want to have warm milk or banana Supposedly those help you sleep that's up to you, but I just the two hours before bed actually minimum

actually helps your whole body downregulate. It gives you your liver a rest. gives you, yes, exactly, thank you, Leigh. And shower or bath before bed, really helpful, because they're warm. They bring your body temperature down, and it can be part of a soothing routine. Clear bedtime steps. So what is required for bedtime, and what can you call it?

Like in my house, I say steps because we call it steps. It's time for steps. Let's go. And everyone knows that is three things that they have to do for steps. You've got to start this process one hour before it lights out at least. Here's the thing. End of day. I've noticed this. End of day. A lot of moms, especially right around nine or nine thirty, it's like a witching hour. It's the time when we're tired.

where our regulation energy is quite depleted and we would like them to just parent themselves to bed please. Unfortunately, that might not happen. However, what I can offer you at the conclusion of this talk is a soothing routine that might be great for you too. So quickly though, let's touch on daytime engagement. Physical activity is non-negotiable.

with ADHD. So if I'm interviewing an adult for my practice and we're talking about like what I believe and I let that slip, you should do cardio activity 30 to 45 minutes a day. I know I'm never going to see them again because many people just don't want to hear that. But it's true because this is how you activate the dopamine system. You can have a four to six hour medication like benefit and also it wears out their bodies.

Your kids, need to move. They spend so much time regulating in a chair all day. And it's like anti-childhood. So any movement is good as long as you're getting it. Nutrition. You know, it's so funny that I say 80 % of the food in grocery stores isn't real food. I agree. But here's the thing. Before all that food arrived, we lived off the 20%. You literally don't need processed food.

There are so many healthy options out there for us, limited as much as possible, and definitely only natural sugars in fruits. It's summer, it's fruit season. Avoid concentrated sugar as much as possible, maybe once a week treat. But this is important for ADHD because of the way the nervous system is wired. It's very sensitive, and these invisible internal stressors can really impact the ADHD person.

Sunlight, outdoor time, it sets your circadian rhythm. Did you know that the photons that you receive in your eyes before 10 a.m. are different than those you receive after 10 a.m.? And they all relate to your biological clock. Isn't that crazy? And right around sunset, the sun senses different signals. And our biological clock actually sets itself according to that. Take a walk after dinner together. It's a great way to level out your

blood sugar to be together and to get that great light into your eyes and that message into your brain that it is time to start thinking about going to sleep. Screen time, no surprise. I don't like screen time. I already shared that, but I know it's a part of life. Don't get me wrong. Don't think my kids are like, we don't have screens. They have screens. And it's an ongoing negotiation, collaboration and struggle. Family screen time policy is good idea.

So you set out what you believe in most screens, why you believe it, and what you're going to do about it, what you're aiming for as a family. Vitamin C, Dr. Halliburton refers to connection. We're going to talk about this further with co-regulation. But connection, connection, connection. Connection to you helps your kid protect themselves from the scary stories that their default mode network is telling them. If you're there as their source of reality, you are a relief to them.

Okay, so hang on. What's going on here? So what's the opportunity? I'm a coach. I'm always into opportunities and strengths and what can we discover? This is so beautiful because if your kids are afraid to go to bed because they're afraid of something, robbers are a big one in this age group. And you know what? Some of these things are like, they're ridiculous. people, there are such things as robbers. They didn't make them up. But the likelihood is

low, let's say, and not worthy of them not going to bed. So they're having intense, intense feelings about something and they're bringing you those feelings. And the beauty of it is what they're afraid of is fundamentally not real. I really could not ask for a better example of the inner struggle of an ADHD person. They have created this story.

the default mode network has created the story, it's gotten its stimulus at the expense of your little person. And it is hard for them to distinguish the fact that these strong feelings don't reflect reality. But they don't. And becoming a canny observer of that can be very helpful.

I'm going to tell a quick personal story. So personal story alert because I'm very suspicious when people like me share personal stories. I to think it means we're out of gas, but this is actually relevant. My daughter who's had some bedtime challenges said to me the other day, I can't even remember what I was she was scared of something scared her. And she said to me,

I was suddenly scared of this and it kept me up for a little bit and I just overtook me and I said, congratulations for not waking me up over that. That is not happening. Her feelings are real. I embrace her and I understand that these are thoughts that have more freedom and agency to pop up in the dark of night. But

Sara Whelan (28:53)

Yes.

Bronwyn Foley (29:08)

They're not real. The things, the sources are not real. And we can connect about that and work through strategies. Bedtime is such a safe opportunity to witness an experience with the pull of this internal state. is like a crucible of self-management for us. So self-reg is the first stop. Okay, yes, this is me with my son who turned 13 last week.

I couldn't help it. I thought this is a good self-reg picture, even though it's not night. Obviously I'm not trying to put him to sleep. Okay, self-reg is taught through co-regulation.

So it's like they're offering you this experience they're having and they need your help contextualizing it. They are sincerely scared and yet it's not based in anything real. So here's your mature brain.

With their immature brain, Harvard researchers developed this idea of the interbrain that develops. It's this hookup, this nervous system hookup between parent and child, friend to friend, whatever the case may be. And it's the foundation of self-regulation. So you are the mature bearing when they come to you with their struggles. And as their co-regulator, they're asking you to help them understand what's going on.

I mean, they're not literally asking you, but that's the content of what that invitation truly is. So remembering that children develop ideas about themselves through your eyes and also through your words. So part of co-regulation is, this is hard for parents, is not getting caught up in the intensity of their emotions because you are linked.

What they need from you is your calm, your love, your warmth, your contact, if they receive contact, your humor, and your belief in them that you know they are not gonna be overcome by their own imagination.

Sara Whelan (31:20)

So.

Bronwyn Foley (31:21)

Stop and look at self-reg for a minute. Self-reg is the exploration of the nervous system's experience of stress and its recovery. And we're experiencing stress all day, distress, and eustress. And it burns energy. And then we have to restore. Self-reg is a dynamic process. And it's not about control. Control burns energy.

Self-reg is a process, it's perfect, it's nested in coaching, because it's about curiosity and inquiry. And it's based in the idea that we are differentiating between stress behavior and misbehavior. Your child who is having these intense feelings because of these fears is experiencing stress behavior.

and they need your assistance to reframe the behavior, recognize the stressors, reduce the stress, reflect to enhance stress awareness and to restore. Those are the five steps of self-reg that are ongoing throughout our lives to varying degrees with varying levels of awareness. So one of the most important is restoration.

This is one of the biggest that I bring to families is the idea that you have a stressful event and then we can restore through our co-regulation.

we can restore using this power. All right, so big feelings. I feel strongly. Every one of my clients could do an autobiography and they could name it, I feel strongly because we do feel strongly. And you know what? That can be a beautiful thing. It can be wonderful to feel strongly and have laughter and joy and have that kind of vivid experience. And for every benefit, there's a cost that's from Dr. Dversky as well.

So we have to be mindful of our capacities. So tears, quick reminder, even if your baby comes to you in tears, we can remind ourselves that tears are one of the ways the body relieves stress. Tears are not the hurt itself, tears are healing from the hurt. Stay close and project calm. So we can receive their stories.

We can witness it back and repeat it so they know that they're heard and seen. And then we can offer to contextualize stories. I mean, I'm sure you're already thinking you could use this in more than just bedtime. This is broadly a way to engage an ADHD kiddo. But you remember that your child is slammed with intense feelings and needs your mature brain to love them while you help them understand.

exactly how much of their attention they should give to those feelings because when we give attention to things we imbue that with the power of reality and there are no monsters under the bed so all right

parent leadership. I do keep emphasizing this because I have seen parents be overcome by their kids' feelings.

And for good reason, because they love their kids. You can see I had fun with chat GPT. That's another great thing I got out of this talk. I learned how to use chat GPT. So we're going to receive these big feelings with attention and compassion. We will question the source of fears, calm and clear boundaries. And we can talk to them about the difference between imagination and reality. You have a brilliant imagination, but I think...

It's running away with you.

So emphasizing again that it feels real to them even though it's not. So what's a supportive reality? Okay, so all day they've had their attention out in the world and then night comes and my God, there aren't enough stuffed animals around the bed, whatever the case may be. Continue to invite attention out to external reality. Contact.

The first stop for self-reg is physical contact. What a beautiful way to remind the brain that you are not alone with these stories. So cuddles at night, lay on their bed with them, or lay on your beds, you can transition to their bed. But being in close contact is part of the bedtime routine.

Which brings me to this. This is three good things, which is a validated adaptive process from the School of Positive Psychology out of the University of Pennsylvania. This is what it says. If we daily, as a family, are, and this is a nighttime thing.

It's a nighttime thing also because your older kids will be more available to you at night because their defenses will be lower. If we get together and we all have to share three good things from our day, it helps train attention on all of the positive things in our lives. And it helps pull attention away from those fears

and stories that young brains might be developing. It's very, very, it's sort of defensive too, because it's something they can take with them and remember. So three good things are, mean, my kids and I do this every night, three good things, and they know it. It's gonna happen, we have to do it, we sit on my bed.

and it can lead to great conversations, little ad hoc things that happen. So three good things are, I love dinner, my son, he loved dinner, he had a bassoon lesson, and he went on a great bike ride. Three good things in life. My daughter came in and had hers, I have mine. We make sure everyone has had their turn, and then we head to bed for bedtime.

A book. Reading time. Either together or alone. But a book is a great way to get the brain onto a different story. In fact, if you can get your kid hooked on a good book, they're excited to read the book. They can't wait to go to bed. But it pulls the brain into a different story. A song. Do you have a song that you sing? True Confessions, My Son Is 13.

I sing the same song that I sang to him. was infant. However, he does change it now because he's 13. So he beat boxes and changes the words and he's 13, but it's part of our total routine. Loving mantras.

Something that your child can repeat over and over or something you repeat regularly every night to your child. Loving mantra might be, I love you more than anything, you are my treasure, and being your mother is the best thing that ever happened to me. Something to keep their attention on reality. Music, music can be very down regulating.

you know, as long as it's the right music. You can insist on reality and set firm boundaries. So my daughter had a series of questions she used to ask me every night. One of them was, is mind control real? And I said, well, if it were real, you wouldn't be asking me this question. So, and she would say, mom, I'm like, no.

We're okay, I love you, good night. Firm, firm boundaries. Firm boundaries because you're modeling for them how to set firm boundaries with their own mind. They need your example.

All right, so staying connected. Don't be afraid to let them know what's going on. Look, you're awesome. You have a great brain. It's very imaginative and very active and now it needs to go to bed. So we have to be like, be in charge of this brain. Externalize your coach. You can give them examples of when you handle this as a kid. We were all scared at some point. Let them know they're not alone. Receive, receive, receive. Oh my gosh, I hear you.

Wow, and no, that's absolutely not possible. That's not true. But I absolutely hear how that's scary for you. So you can set a line between, like I did with my daughter last night, she of course knows, she knew it wasn't real, whatever it was she was afraid of. But I absolutely want to hear it. And I'm absolutely going to be honest about what it is that is actually happening there.

Set boundaries, be clear about what needs to happen and why. We all need sleep. What's your narrative around sleep? You must have sleep. What do you share with people or your kids about what's important about sleep? Solve, get their input. How are we going to get your runaway imagination to bed? Because this is getting really silly. And you need to go to bed. Nope, not true. mean, whatever the case is, it's

Sara Whelan (41:06)

Hmm.

Bronwyn Foley (41:09)

It's down regular, you staying regulated while they work through their dysregulation. Investigate the root cause. my gosh, I saw a meme. I saw a short TikTok video. This is why I feel so strong about social media. You can see something at 2 p.m. and it comes racing back at nine. Was there something sad? ADHD is very sensitive and interpret things.

all sorts of ways when that imagination gets a hold of it. Challenge them, invite them to meet the moment, to be the boss of their own brain and be silly. Help them laugh, help them release tension with giggles. It's just feelings about something that is fundamentally isn't real. There is this thing that I noticed with lot of parents, they wanna be more engaged than perhaps they were when they were kids.

Sara Whelan (41:46)

How?

Bronwyn Foley (42:03)

or when their parents were with them, where a lot of growing up in Gen X and some millennials, was the parents had the story and the kids had to just believe the parent's story and that was that. So there's this sort of desire to be there for kids in a different way, in a more collaborative way. But every feeling they bring us is not reflective of reality. What we can do is

help them pick and choose and investigate those feelings and subsequent stories. All right. Be your child's champion. They really need you to stand up for them. Bedtime is a great opportunity for your child as they experiment with their own self-rag and they're powerful, albeit very hungry. ADHD brain. All right, there you go.

Any questions anyone? Let me stop sharing. Hang on y'all. yeah, my content information. If you have any questions, please let me know. All right, hang on. I'm gonna exit and stop sharing.

Hang on, did I stop sharing?

Okay, good.

You can.

Sara Whelan (43:25)

Thank you very much. As you were talking, just to get people thinking of their questions, so many things you said brings me back to when my kids were young. Try to start bedtime an hour before sleep time. It's not always possible. Sports keep kids on the fields until too late, and then they come back all ramped up. So sometimes it's beyond the control of the parents and the families.

Bronwyn Foley (43:56)

Hi Sara, what are you gonna say?

Sara Whelan (43:58)

Just when I, because even as a parent, yeah, we run into that. I'm both of our girls have ADHD too. And, um, so what I try to do is bring, we always try to focus on those non-negotiables even when it's a really late night. And so, you know, already having like the no screens in the room kind of rule and some other things that we're doing that are easy and fast can be really helpful with sleep, even on those nights when it's a really extra late night and we can't do.

all the things we'd like to do. I like to think about, we're trying our best and it's not going to always, you know, but even those small things can make a huge difference with sleep. So it's easy to get.

Bronwyn Foley (44:38)

that I didn't mention dimmers. Dimmers all throughout your house are a really good strategy. And they're actually pretty easy to install. Get dimmers. They're very helpful to down, I mean, true sleep people will put their lamps on the floor. That's what their research shows them. they're like, it's artificial light has really created some unique problems for we humans and some unique opportunities.

So dimmers are important and then to your points here, yes, but here's the thing about the sporty kids. When they are exerting themselves physically, as long as you can get their heads to the pillow, they will usually knock out.

The kids I'm referring to that I have encountered actually do have in common that they're not as physically active.

And it's been a struggle to get them physical. They're more like, you know, they inquire and doing stuff like that. They're not on the lacrosse field. And that isn't for everybody.

Sara Whelan (45:40)

So.

Bronwyn Foley (45:42)

I see six comments. Any questions anyone?

Sara Whelan (45:47)

One of the questions was about magnesium, which I think you saw during the talk.

Bronwyn Foley (45:52)

I didn't see it, but I didn't talk about it. You would have to talk to your healthcare provider because they don't know for kids. For adults, I take magnesium at night. I don't know about it for kids though.

Sara Whelan (46:12)

There's a new question. Any tips for a child who refuses to sleep in their own room and insists on sleeping with parents? The age-old question.

Bronwyn Foley (46:18)

Yes. Anisha, that you? Okay. Well.

As a coach, I would start with talking to Kiddo about like how old is your little one? You're muted so I can't hear you.

That's okay. Seven, okay, okay. All right, so.

So depending, whatever your nighttime routine is, you're down regulating, but you're ready for them to move to their own bed. So,

It opens with a conversation for me. It opens for conversation about kiddo, about sleep, about age, about moving into your own bed and how can we make your bed a place you want to be and working with the kiddo to break down the steps to move into their own bed. What's good about being in your own bed. And then there's also setting a clear boundary. You need to be in your own bed.

and we are going to work with you any way we can to make it comfortable and a wonderful warm place for you.

But at seven, I don't know. I'm guessing you probably have some resistance because there's not as much pressure. The kids that I'm talking about are the preteens who don't wanna be in their parents' right? It's uncool. You wanna be in but you're scared. And your seven is a little different. So...

It might get dicey. You might have some tears. You might have some anger. But that isn't them being hurt by you. That's them relieving the stress of a transition.

So that's what can get hard, right? When they start crying and you feel terrible and, but that isn't you hurting them. That's them working through the stress of getting into their own bed.

How does that sound? Is that helpful?

Sara Whelan (48:47)

is, I mean, we've tried many times,

but there's sort of a last minute sort of panic response. A lot of it is associated with fears. that's me in those moments. It's hard to, you know,

Bronwyn Foley (48:53)

and

So that kind of gets.

So that's it. That's exactly what happens to so many parents of all age, kids of all ages. It gets you, because you don't want to hurt your baby, but you're not hurting your baby. In fact, you're teaching a level of resilience and anti-fragility that will only serve them well, and you're not hurting them. You're just giving them a really cool bed of their own. Yeah. Yes. It's that place for you, for your own regulation.

So that might be if you have a parenting partner, talking through strategies with your parenting partner as well, trying to support each other as you move this transition, move into this transition. I mean, that's off the top of my head, but I can think of it. Thank you. You're welcome.

Sara Whelan (50:06)

I think we have another the same question, but for a four year old. So it's definitely a topic for parents with children of all ages.

Bronwyn Foley (50:15)

So yeah.

It's okay to set a firm boundary because your child is safe. Your child is safe in their own bed. In fact, arguably you're all safer because you're going to get better sleep so you won't be cranky with each other. So figuring out how to set a clear boundary and have a very clear narrative about reality. I had to sleep train my son.

Twice, three times actually, because he was so sick when he was a baby. And my narrative to him was the first, I'll say the third time, because he was needed vitamin D, turns out. And we'd been holding him up all night, like until two or three in the morning, and then putting him back, because he couldn't breathe. And he was like two and a half. And he thought that was going to keep going.

And of course he got better and we like, this is not going keep going. So I put it, maybe it was a year and a half. I put him in his crib. We had the lights low and I ended up just sitting in a chair next to him while he screamed at me and cried and was hysterical and angry. And I was like, buddy, you're going to go to sleep on your own in your bed. I'm just going to sit here with you right now, but you're going to go to sleep on your own. You're going to be okay.

This is your bed. It's a great bed and it's very cozy and you are safe here. Screaming, screaming, screaming. He even asked for water at one point. I'll give him some water. Screaming, screaming, screaming. And then out of nowhere, he just said, and he laid down and went to bed. And that was it. The next night he knew exactly what was going to happen.

So I love you, you're safe, this is your bed, it's for you to sleep in and holding the line warmly and compassionately.

I mean, you know what, by my story, we had no choice. We were not going to spend his childhood holding him up just because he was crying.

Speaker 3 (52:19)

I forget it. I'm going to

Bronwyn Foley (52:21)

bed. but it is lovingly and compassionate. And also, I hear that this is kind of scary. But guess what? You're going to be okay. And you are big and strong. And these fears are not going to get the better of you. You're okay. You're going to make you can do this. I believe in you. Believe in them, because they can do it. And they might feel tremendous sense of accomplishment. I hear this is a big challenge.

And I know you can do it.

It's okay to challenge them. This is such a safe place for them to get an idea that they're awesome.

It's so safe for that's my big thing that came up when I was writing this. I was like, God, that's right. Cause I knew there was something I needed out of this topic that I hadn't quite gotten. It's that this is such a safe place to teach kids that they can do these things. They can figure this out.

They can be proud of themselves and strong on their own behalf.

It's like we don't want our kids to have any bad feelings. But they have to have bad feelings sometimes. But if we're there with them to walk through those bad feelings, then that's the parenting part.

Anything else? What time is it? I was talking and I was like, I don't know.

Sara Whelan (53:58)

We're right, we're two minutes away from an hour. So it's like exactly right on time. Wonderful. Other announcements from you, Kristen, anything that we had a couple of people put in their emails in the chat.

Some sent them just

to me. So, okay, great. I've acknowledged in some way that I got your name, entered it in.

Excellent. Talk about next month. Yes, next month. But first of all, Bronwyn thank you so much. Thank you. And this has been wonderful. I could listen and chat much longer, listen to you. And I'm very excited also because in July, Kristen herself is going to be presenting

to our group on July 15th on managing medication side effects. So RSVP join us again, I believe on a Tuesday night, 6.30 central time. So we hope you can join us again.

Bronwyn Foley (55:02)

All right.

Sara Whelan (55:03)

Thank you so much.

Bronwyn Foley (55:05)

me,

Bronwyn @ bronwynfoley.com That's my email. Otherwise, it was such a pleasure to be a part of this process. What a great, you guys have such a good chat chapter. You're so lucky. They're amazing. Yeah, indeed. Indeed.

Sara Whelan (55:22)

did record this, if it's okay with you, can include your contact information in the newsletter with the recording.

Bronwyn Foley (55:29)

would love it. Thank you. I appreciate that so much. It was great to be here with you all. Have a wonderful rest of your night. Take care.

Sara Whelan (55:37)

Thank you. Goodbye, everyone. Thank you.

In this special episode, we welcome Sara Whelan, a mom, late-diagnosed ADHD adult, seasoned school psychologist, and now a passionate advocate leading our Parent Support Group. Sara shares her personal ADHD journey, her experience working in schools, and why she’s excited to help other families feel seen, supported, and empowered.

Dr. Kristen Stuppy, one of our hosts, also previews her upcoming July 15th parent group talk on managing ADHD medication side effects — an essential discussion for parents navigating the trial-and-error process of treatment, learning how to monitor effectiveness, and knowing when to make changes.

RSVP: Managing Medication Side Effects

Don’t forget the June Parent Group Event!

💬 Highlights of this episode of ADHDKC Conversations include:

• The emotional journey of parenting (and being) someone with ADHD
• Tips for working with schools to support your child
• Real talk about ADHD meds: fears, facts, and how to recognize side effects — the “why” behind your need to join the parent group in July

RSVP for July's talk

• A look ahead to the International Conference on ADHD coming to Kansas City this November!

International ADHD Conference

🎧 Listen on Spotify or Apple Podcasts (view this newsletter on a computer for links)

🔗Watch the video above or on YouTube.

📅 Register for the July Parent Group Event, “Managing ADHD Medication Side Effects” on Jul 15th from 6:30 PM – 7:30 PM CDT online. Join from anywhere!

RSVP - it's FREE!

And don’t forget to enter our ADHDKC T-Shirt Contest — open through the end of the month! Details here:

Whether you're newly diagnosed, a veteran parent, or somewhere in between, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in and meet more of your ADHDKC community!

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to ADHDKC Conversations

01:10 Meet Sara Whelan: The New Parent Group Coordinator

01:24 Sara's Background and Experience with ADHD

02:54 The Journey to Advocacy and Support

07:45 Understanding ADHD Medications and Side Effects

08:29 Navigating Medication Trials and Adjustments

16:46 Recognizing Medication Side Effects in Children

22:14 Upcoming ADHD Conference in Kansas City

26:22 Local Resources and Support Groups

Transcript is AI-generated. Excuse the errors.

I tried to change all the misspellings, but it keeps reverting back, so included in all the name misspellings, we are now known as ADHD Casey! 🤣