Did you miss our June ADHDKC Parent Group talk? You're in luck—the recording and full transcript are now available!
In this insightful session, Bronwyn Foley explores how fears, bedtime resistance, and nightmares can overwhelm children with ADHD — and what you can do to help.
🎤 Bronwyn walks parents through:
Why ADHD brains are more prone to nighttime fears and anxiety
How co-regulation leads to self-regulation over time
What not to say during a nighttime meltdown
Gentle strategies to build your child's emotional safety
How to help your child feel more confident and in control
Whether your child resists bedtime, fears the dark, or wakes up from nightmares, this talk offers practical tools and compassionate insights to help your family rest easier.
🔗 Watch the recording above and access the transcript below.
🎧You can also play this in your favorite podcast player — look for ADHD KC Conversations or find the link above.
Don’t forget to share with other caregivers who could use some nighttime support!
Resources mentioned in this talk
ADHD 2.0 by Drs Ned Hallowell and John Ratey
Chapters
00:00 The Role of Imagination in ADHD
00:20 ADHD Coaching and Community Engagement
10:33 Understanding the ADHD Brain
13:26 The Importance of Sleep in ADHD
20:57 Creating a Sleep-Friendly Environment
24:14 Daytime Engagement and Physical Activity
27:01 Co-Regulation and Emotional Support
32:52 Self-Regulation Strategies for ADHD
35:40 Bedtime Routines and Positive Reinforcement
41:09 Navigating Fears and Imagination at Night
43:56 Parenting Strategies for Sleep Challenges
Transcript
This is AI generated - please excuse the errors!
Sara Whelan (00:05)
Hello everyone. Welcome. We're so glad you could join us tonight. I'm Sara Whelan and I am the parent group coordinator, a volunteer for AHDKC and I'm excited to get this talk going tonight. Before I introduce our speaker, just a few housekeeping notes. A reminder that our chapter ADHDKC is a CHADD chapter. And we wanted you to know that if you are in the KC area and would like to have a chance to win a one year CHADD membership, go ahead and put your name and your email in our chat box and
you, we will pick. And if you win that and you also want to come to, as we're showing here, plugging our international conference that just so happens to be coming to Kansas City in November. If you are a CHADD member, you get a discount on that as well. We're very excited to have this event so close here to home and we'd love to have you join us.
Let's see. We've been around for a while. And in case you, if this is the first time joining, this is the parent group, but we also have a teen group, a women's group, a general adults group, lots of different ways to get resources and join, all very popular and they're all on our website. And you just RSVP sign up -- some of them are in person and some are online.
Alright, well, let me switch slides here. Bronwyn, would you like me to share your slides or do you want to? Okay, I will.
Bronwyn Foley (01:53)
Thank Here we go. All right. So hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining. It's my pleasure to be here. I'm so honored to be included in your community. My name is Bronwyn Foley, and I am an ADHD coach out of Naperville, Illinois. Six hours north.
Sara Whelan (01:56)
All
So.
And I have
Bronwyn Foley (02:19)
been given this opportunity to talk about this unique topic. It has really been an honor and a privilege to think it through even further because I've worked on this with my clients and my own children.
Sara Whelan (02:33)
and
Bronwyn Foley (02:34)
It has so much potential for understanding the ADHD brain, developing inner resources to capitalize on the potential of the brain. So bedtime resistance, fears and nightmares before you even close your eyes. That's a thing for a lot of ADHD kiddos and for some adults actually too. That was the other reason that I was so inspired recently as I was seeing this through line of...
Sara Whelan (02:39)
and resources.
Bronwyn Foley (03:02)
adults talking about how there's like bedtime resistance, there is this things don't seem to be going well. Things go dark and that brain just runs ahead and starts creating these stories. And it can be challenging to silence that or to discern reality from those stories. So I open with this quote.
Speaker 3 (03:16)
channel.
Sara Whelan (03:24)
I
Bronwyn Foley (03:27)
from Dr. Barbara Tversky. I probably should have opened with Dr. Barbara Tversky. She's a professor at Stanford who wrote a book called Mind in Motion. And she has her nine laws of cognition that I have up here on my bulletin board. And one of them is when thought overflows the mind, the mind puts it in the world. And in my estimation, this is, this was not written for ADHD, but in my estimation, this is such a beautiful depiction of how what is imagined
Sara Whelan (03:43)
over
Bronwyn Foley (03:56)
can take on the salience of something that's real, which is what kids are dealing with when they are so scared to go to.
Sara Whelan (04:07)
Okay.
Bronwyn Foley (04:08)
So quick introduction, coach for five years. You know I'm in Naperville. I work with ADHD impacted families, business leaders. I do love those entrepreneurs. So fun. I'm credentialed by the International Coaching Federation and by the ADD Coach Academy. I'm also adult and youth Colby certified. So I integrate strengths very tightly into my practice.
I have a positive psychology specialization and I have a Merit Institute self-reg certification. Also, I have an organization leadership masters and a BA in theater. I am a mom, so I may know something about this firsthand. have a 13 year old boy and a 16 year old girl. All right, so why this topic? Well, it's prevalent. It has come up quite a bit with my clients.
It seemed worthy of attention. I wasn't seeing a lot around this topic specifically, but it's very disruptive to families when sleep is disruptive. So, and the intensity of emotion that can come out of a child to a parent over this topic can be startling for a parent. Sleep is a prevalent ADHD issue.
Sara Whelan (05:05)
And I'm.
yeah.
Bronwyn Foley (05:32)
10 to 15 % of little kids, this is twice their typical, so have trouble getting to sleep. And by puberty, which is really where I see this hitting the most, around 12 and a half, 50 % of kids have difficulty falling asleep. This is not a monolith, not all the kids do. Some of them, their heads hit the pillow and they're out. But a lot of them have real struggles. Now, I polled one of my mentors and friends as Dr. Bill Dodson.
Sara Whelan (05:38)
And.
in.
Bronwyn Foley (06:01)
And he wrote an article for Attitude about why ADHDers are so tired all the time. Again, we're not always so tired all the time, but a lot of us are. And sleep was not included in DSM criteria.
Sara Whelan (06:14)
quite a while.
Bronwyn Foley (06:15)
because the DSM [4] required that all ADHD symptoms be present at the time someone was 7.
Sara Whelan (06:20)
seven.
However, as we
Bronwyn Foley (06:24)
see here, a lot of these symptoms kick off in puberty. So it would be overlooked. Also, the DSM is very committed to keeping things in tidy categories. I think of it as like a giant Excel spreadsheet. If it doesn't fit in the cell, then it's not going to make it to the DSM. And we all know emotional dysregulation is challenging for ADHDers, but for some reason, it just hasn't made
Sara Whelan (06:47)
to the DSM. ⁓
Bronwyn Foley (06:49)
So
largely sleep for the history of this has been seen as separate from ADHD, not just an expression of the ADHD brain. I'm gonna do a quick review of the ADHD brain, because context is so important, I want you to know where I'm coming from. This is really very quickly, broadly how I work. I have pulled from ADHD 2.0 and other resources.
Sara Whelan (06:54)
Brett.
Bronwyn Foley (07:18)
But ADHD 2.0 is one I can direct you to, Dr. Ned Hallowell and John Rady's book about the current state of ADHD thought and research. And what has been determined is that ADHDers, unlike neurotypicals, have more neural energy active at any given moment. So here's the deal. These two networks, brain networks that are implicated,
Task positive network is the network that identifies the tasks, decides it's important, initiates, gets it done, finishes the task, moves on. The default mode network is where a neurotypical, when they're done with the tasks, they don't have anything to do. You sit back into your relaxed state, your brain basically, your energy goes back to what's known as your default mode network or your conceptual brain, your imaginative state.
Sara Whelan (08:13)
My
Bronwyn Foley (08:13)
for the purposes, or we will for the purposes of this conversation. We're call it the imagination because we're talking about kids. And it's an easy thing for kids to perceive and understand. And it is also the seed of the imagination amongst many other things that it does. Neuro-typicals, they're asynchronous networks.
with ADHDers, it's been noticed that they're on together. So what we have are networks that are synchronous but are not necessarily synchronized. Does this make sense so far? If there are any questions, just throw them in the chat and we can talk about it. What this means that there's sort of a rivalry for our limited attention, and I'm going to say limited attention, I just want to be clear. Everyone's attention is limited. We only have 100 % of our own attention.
Sara Whelan (09:03)
limited.
you
Bronwyn Foley (09:07)
And with an ADHDer, when you are going through your day with these active networks, both trying to engage your attention, both trying to engage in your day, it can be baffling for the ADHD person, particularly the ADHD child. It's this sort of push and pull between the internal state and the external state.
Reality is created externally and then we include our internal information. But if you have your imagination active all the time.
Sara Whelan (09:46)
It might.
Bronwyn Foley (09:47)
your attention to an internal story about what's going on out here and it may not be accurate.
Sara Whelan (09:54)
So.
Bronwyn Foley (09:55)
If the
networks are on, they're looking for engagement in your day. And sometimes it will be at the expense of the owner of the brain. DMN can be very demanding. In fact, there are studies that show that kids with ADHD can have some hyperconnectivity in their default mode. Now this is seen as a problem, but I mean, it's the reality and so the lessons that they need
Sara Whelan (10:14)
work.
Bronwyn Foley (10:22)
for engagement are going to be different than the lessons that a neurotypical kid needs. So here's the thing. The imagination is active and it wants to be involved in the day.
Sara Whelan (10:33)
But it's not.
Bronwyn Foley (10:33)
necessarily
called upon to do very much.
Sara Whelan (10:36)
throughout the day.
Bronwyn Foley (10:38)
It is what we will sometimes refer to as stimulus star. It's looking for engagement. And that work done. So the question might be who's in charge? The imagination or the owner of the brain? Sometimes it can feel to the owner of the brain that they're being dragged around by their imagination versus them being the one who's setting the setting the
Sara Whelan (10:45)
for what that is.
Bronwyn Foley (11:04)
The plan.
Sara Whelan (11:05)
So.
Bronwyn Foley (11:07)
They're running two networks, a single network. Dr. Dawson has observed that HG brains reject secondary importance a lot of the time. And we actually live in a world that is, with second. Someone tells you what to do. Teacher tells the child what to do. They tell them when to do it. They tell them how to do it and tell them when to turn it in.
Sara Whelan (11:15)
It is.
complete, and very important.
the
And
Bronwyn Foley (11:37)
the
ADHD brain, this default mode network will reject.
Sara Whelan (11:41)
often.
Bronwyn Foley (11:42)
It will
be mystery to the brain owner. To keep this in mind, it looks like this willful misbehavior. But honestly, it's the owner of the brain receiving a message that this is not salient enough for my attention and energy, this thing that's being given me. First is unneurotypical. The lights are dark in their imagination.
You hand them the worksheet, they do the worksheet. Because that's what they've been told is important and they will receive that importance. Look at the things that seem to fire up ADHD-er. Purpose, novelty, interest, urgency, competition. I get a lot of adults into my Zoom room who are just exhausted at living with urgency. They need other ways to live. A lot of kids. I've had a kiddo.
who wanted to hold off on a book report until the last study hall of Friday when it was due and run it down the hall to his teacher just as she was leaving. And the parents were baffled. And I said, I think I know what he's doing. He's creating salience. His brain is saying, okay, I'll give you attention and energy for that because it has become urgent now. So the brain will
offer him what he needs to get it done. Okay, so this is a core feature. The ADHD, sleep is a core feature. Difficulties with sleep is a sign or a core feature of ADHD. This nervous system doesn't stop. It's 24-7. It's all the time.
Sara Whelan (13:17)
D.
Bronwyn Foley (13:26)
It doesn't turn off at night, and that's why we have to look at sleep as being, sleep challenges as being symptomatic or potentially symptomatic of ADHD. In coaching, we recognize the impact of transitions. So transitions are we're doing one thing, and now I'm gonna shift over and do this other thing. So if you have a list of steps,
Sara Whelan (13:45)
and
Bronwyn Foley (13:52)
go from the one thing to the next thing to the next thing and be able to transition in a timely manner. And sometimes this guy does not want to. So it can be very. Set shift. That shift is a little bigger. Let's back up. Set shifting is. Well, we're watching TV. And now it's time to turn off the TV and go up to bed.
Sara Whelan (13:58)
and
do that.
Bronwyn Foley (14:22)
That is a major shift in attention or I mean what am I talking about? I'm like aging myself because I was born in the previous century or we're playing a video game and it's time to turn off and do something else. You have to shift your attention and that for an ADHD or once their attention is once this guy is finally engaged you tell them you have to disengage.
It can feel very challenging. Difficulty down regulating on demand. So on demand from someone else, from a parent, from another person who wants to give direction. can be hard for an ADHD or to independently down regulate just because someone tells them they should. So the sun goes down. Now all day long.
Sara Whelan (15:02)
from an.
Bronwyn Foley (15:19)
The task positive network has gotten more attention than the default one. I mean, the task positive network has, you're able to, the ADHD kids are able to turn their attention out to the world around. Especially if we have a recurring bedtime fear. Something that makes a kiddo break out in hives. Something that makes a kiddo want to park themselves in their parents' room.
Sara Whelan (15:45)
floor.
Bronwyn Foley (15:47)
just different things that will come up with kids at night. Because here's the thing, the sun goes down, the ADHD brain seems to light up. Now I'm an ADHD person, I'm a mother of two with a business of my own, so those days are actually physically over for me. But I do relate to this when I was younger, that this was a thing. And I notice it in my clients and a lot of my adult clients too, that they...
The sun goes down and suddenly they get this burst of energy.
that's about but what I can say is that that the fears that are manifested before bedtime suddenly that default mode network doesn't have as many distractions and it can race forward and start to deliver that fear or that remember that stimulus star brain that guy who just wants something to do all the time well guess what
Sara Whelan (16:23)
Yes.
Bronwyn Foley (16:50)
There's no classroom, no teachers, you're alone in your room. It's his turn and he, this brain is looking for stimulus and without leadership, it may resist down regulating. It's a stimulus hungry imagination as runs away with your child's attention. Barbara Luther is the one of the founders of the ADD Coach Academy and she and I were recently talking about this topic. And I said, I feel like,
Some of my clients, their brains are really almost tormenting them. And she said, well, yes, because the brain wants what it wants, and it wants stimulus.
And if it doesn't have leadership or metacognitive direction, it's going to drag your little one around, potentially. All right. But before we get going on ADHD and how we're going to tackle that and help that brain get some direction and some adaptive stimulus, let's do a basic sleep inventory and uncover possible co-occurring challenges. For instance,
Sleep apnea. Kids with tonsils or adenoids. I was an inattentive child and then when I was six, I had to get my adenoids out because I was having sleep apnea as a little one. There is something truly to this. GERD, if they have reflux that can keep the kid up and if it keeps the kid up, they can't down regulate and settle.
Low ferritin. Low ferritin is positively correlated with ADHD, low iron. It can also be a source of restless leg syndrome. ADHD meds. There are some say if they are dosed correctly, they shouldn't keep you up. There are some who say that's not the case. You should be careful about meds. I will say this.
Sometimes folks will give Benadryl to kids to help them sleep. We don't want to do that. Yes, Sara, I agree. We don't want to do that because Benadryl is an acetylcholine blocker. Acetylcholine is what helps you make long-term memories. We don't want to introduce Benadryl. We want to avoid those over-the-counter corrections.
There is some talk about melatonin, like Attitude just did a podcast where this woman from Europe was talking about melatonin. Melatonin is regulated in Europe. It's not regulated here in the US. So when you buy melatonin over the counter, whatever amount it says, it's sort of like cross your fingers that that's actually what it is. Kristen, you know about this, right? I mean, you're a physician, so.
But some folks will say because there's something called DSPS or delayed sleep phase syndrome, that it's not a bad idea to give the tiniest amount of melatonin, this is going to be a judgment call as a family, to help the brain make the journey into deep sleep because your pineal gland actually releases endogenous melatonin.
But some folks suggest that additional melatonin is needed. However, I'm going to get to why I am suspicious of that in a slide. Chronic pain. A lot of ADHDers grind their teeth. Maybe a tooth cart is needed. And congestion. It's really dry sometimes in different rooms. And that kind of congestion can lead to sleep apnea. That's almost like your adenoids. So a humidifier, these basic things can be really helpful.
If you set the stage though, you set the stage for preparing for this transition and the set shift into transition into bedtime routine and the set shift into the sleep block of the day.
There are some logistics that I strongly endorse as a coach. And one is absolutely no screens in the bedroom. So when folks tell me they have computers in their kids' rooms, they can do whatever they want, obviously, but I heartily endorse getting that computer out of the child's room. We want to have a room with low distractions.
that is for sleeping, is soothing, that is for rest. The pull of video games and social media is so strong and it's designed to be strong. So I offer that our kids will always lose if they are faced with the decision around those, especially if they're alone at night, around those stimulus.
No electronics an hour before bedtime. Here's the thing about melatonin. We all within our natural sleep-wake cycle, we have our melatonin release and it helps let us know we're going to go to sleep. But blue light breaks down melatonin. So it destroys your natural melatonin. So no screens an hour before bedtime. Collect cell phones. You too, you have to stay off your cell phone as well. But that's okay because that's good for you.
And also cool temperatures. I can't tell you how many families have told me well my child's room is the warmest room in the house No, no, don't want that at all. If your child's having trouble sleeping you want it to be 67 or 68 degrees It needs to be cold because the body temperature goes down two to three degrees as we move into deep sleep No, need two hours before bed. This is idiosyncratic. Some people want to have warm milk or banana Supposedly those help you sleep that's up to you, but I just the two hours before bed actually minimum
actually helps your whole body downregulate. It gives you your liver a rest. gives you, yes, exactly, thank you, Leigh. And shower or bath before bed, really helpful, because they're warm. They bring your body temperature down, and it can be part of a soothing routine. Clear bedtime steps. So what is required for bedtime, and what can you call it?
Like in my house, I say steps because we call it steps. It's time for steps. Let's go. And everyone knows that is three things that they have to do for steps. You've got to start this process one hour before it lights out at least. Here's the thing. End of day. I've noticed this. End of day. A lot of moms, especially right around nine or nine thirty, it's like a witching hour. It's the time when we're tired.
where our regulation energy is quite depleted and we would like them to just parent themselves to bed please. Unfortunately, that might not happen. However, what I can offer you at the conclusion of this talk is a soothing routine that might be great for you too. So quickly though, let's touch on daytime engagement. Physical activity is non-negotiable.
with ADHD. So if I'm interviewing an adult for my practice and we're talking about like what I believe and I let that slip, you should do cardio activity 30 to 45 minutes a day. I know I'm never going to see them again because many people just don't want to hear that. But it's true because this is how you activate the dopamine system. You can have a four to six hour medication like benefit and also it wears out their bodies.
Your kids, need to move. They spend so much time regulating in a chair all day. And it's like anti-childhood. So any movement is good as long as you're getting it. Nutrition. You know, it's so funny that I say 80 % of the food in grocery stores isn't real food. I agree. But here's the thing. Before all that food arrived, we lived off the 20%. You literally don't need processed food.
There are so many healthy options out there for us, limited as much as possible, and definitely only natural sugars in fruits. It's summer, it's fruit season. Avoid concentrated sugar as much as possible, maybe once a week treat. But this is important for ADHD because of the way the nervous system is wired. It's very sensitive, and these invisible internal stressors can really impact the ADHD person.
Sunlight, outdoor time, it sets your circadian rhythm. Did you know that the photons that you receive in your eyes before 10 a.m. are different than those you receive after 10 a.m.? And they all relate to your biological clock. Isn't that crazy? And right around sunset, the sun senses different signals. And our biological clock actually sets itself according to that. Take a walk after dinner together. It's a great way to level out your
blood sugar to be together and to get that great light into your eyes and that message into your brain that it is time to start thinking about going to sleep. Screen time, no surprise. I don't like screen time. I already shared that, but I know it's a part of life. Don't get me wrong. Don't think my kids are like, we don't have screens. They have screens. And it's an ongoing negotiation, collaboration and struggle. Family screen time policy is good idea.
So you set out what you believe in most screens, why you believe it, and what you're going to do about it, what you're aiming for as a family. Vitamin C, Dr. Halliburton refers to connection. We're going to talk about this further with co-regulation. But connection, connection, connection. Connection to you helps your kid protect themselves from the scary stories that their default mode network is telling them. If you're there as their source of reality, you are a relief to them.
Okay, so hang on. What's going on here? So what's the opportunity? I'm a coach. I'm always into opportunities and strengths and what can we discover? This is so beautiful because if your kids are afraid to go to bed because they're afraid of something, robbers are a big one in this age group. And you know what? Some of these things are like, they're ridiculous. people, there are such things as robbers. They didn't make them up. But the likelihood is
low, let's say, and not worthy of them not going to bed. So they're having intense, intense feelings about something and they're bringing you those feelings. And the beauty of it is what they're afraid of is fundamentally not real. I really could not ask for a better example of the inner struggle of an ADHD person. They have created this story.
the default mode network has created the story, it's gotten its stimulus at the expense of your little person. And it is hard for them to distinguish the fact that these strong feelings don't reflect reality. But they don't. And becoming a canny observer of that can be very helpful.
I'm going to tell a quick personal story. So personal story alert because I'm very suspicious when people like me share personal stories. I to think it means we're out of gas, but this is actually relevant. My daughter who's had some bedtime challenges said to me the other day, I can't even remember what I was she was scared of something scared her. And she said to me,
I was suddenly scared of this and it kept me up for a little bit and I just overtook me and I said, congratulations for not waking me up over that. That is not happening. Her feelings are real. I embrace her and I understand that these are thoughts that have more freedom and agency to pop up in the dark of night. But
Sara Whelan (28:53)
Yes.
Bronwyn Foley (29:08)
They're not real. The things, the sources are not real. And we can connect about that and work through strategies. Bedtime is such a safe opportunity to witness an experience with the pull of this internal state. is like a crucible of self-management for us. So self-reg is the first stop. Okay, yes, this is me with my son who turned 13 last week.
I couldn't help it. I thought this is a good self-reg picture, even though it's not night. Obviously I'm not trying to put him to sleep. Okay, self-reg is taught through co-regulation.
So it's like they're offering you this experience they're having and they need your help contextualizing it. They are sincerely scared and yet it's not based in anything real. So here's your mature brain.
With their immature brain, Harvard researchers developed this idea of the interbrain that develops. It's this hookup, this nervous system hookup between parent and child, friend to friend, whatever the case may be. And it's the foundation of self-regulation. So you are the mature bearing when they come to you with their struggles. And as their co-regulator, they're asking you to help them understand what's going on.
I mean, they're not literally asking you, but that's the content of what that invitation truly is. So remembering that children develop ideas about themselves through your eyes and also through your words. So part of co-regulation is, this is hard for parents, is not getting caught up in the intensity of their emotions because you are linked.
What they need from you is your calm, your love, your warmth, your contact, if they receive contact, your humor, and your belief in them that you know they are not gonna be overcome by their own imagination.
Sara Whelan (31:20)
So.
Bronwyn Foley (31:21)
Stop and look at self-reg for a minute. Self-reg is the exploration of the nervous system's experience of stress and its recovery. And we're experiencing stress all day, distress, and eustress. And it burns energy. And then we have to restore. Self-reg is a dynamic process. And it's not about control. Control burns energy.
Self-reg is a process, it's perfect, it's nested in coaching, because it's about curiosity and inquiry. And it's based in the idea that we are differentiating between stress behavior and misbehavior. Your child who is having these intense feelings because of these fears is experiencing stress behavior.
and they need your assistance to reframe the behavior, recognize the stressors, reduce the stress, reflect to enhance stress awareness and to restore. Those are the five steps of self-reg that are ongoing throughout our lives to varying degrees with varying levels of awareness. So one of the most important is restoration.
This is one of the biggest that I bring to families is the idea that you have a stressful event and then we can restore through our co-regulation.
we can restore using this power. All right, so big feelings. I feel strongly. Every one of my clients could do an autobiography and they could name it, I feel strongly because we do feel strongly. And you know what? That can be a beautiful thing. It can be wonderful to feel strongly and have laughter and joy and have that kind of vivid experience. And for every benefit, there's a cost that's from Dr. Dversky as well.
So we have to be mindful of our capacities. So tears, quick reminder, even if your baby comes to you in tears, we can remind ourselves that tears are one of the ways the body relieves stress. Tears are not the hurt itself, tears are healing from the hurt. Stay close and project calm. So we can receive their stories.
We can witness it back and repeat it so they know that they're heard and seen. And then we can offer to contextualize stories. I mean, I'm sure you're already thinking you could use this in more than just bedtime. This is broadly a way to engage an ADHD kiddo. But you remember that your child is slammed with intense feelings and needs your mature brain to love them while you help them understand.
exactly how much of their attention they should give to those feelings because when we give attention to things we imbue that with the power of reality and there are no monsters under the bed so all right
parent leadership. I do keep emphasizing this because I have seen parents be overcome by their kids' feelings.
And for good reason, because they love their kids. You can see I had fun with chat GPT. That's another great thing I got out of this talk. I learned how to use chat GPT. So we're going to receive these big feelings with attention and compassion. We will question the source of fears, calm and clear boundaries. And we can talk to them about the difference between imagination and reality. You have a brilliant imagination, but I think...
It's running away with you.
So emphasizing again that it feels real to them even though it's not. So what's a supportive reality? Okay, so all day they've had their attention out in the world and then night comes and my God, there aren't enough stuffed animals around the bed, whatever the case may be. Continue to invite attention out to external reality. Contact.
The first stop for self-reg is physical contact. What a beautiful way to remind the brain that you are not alone with these stories. So cuddles at night, lay on their bed with them, or lay on your beds, you can transition to their bed. But being in close contact is part of the bedtime routine.
Which brings me to this. This is three good things, which is a validated adaptive process from the School of Positive Psychology out of the University of Pennsylvania. This is what it says. If we daily, as a family, are, and this is a nighttime thing.
It's a nighttime thing also because your older kids will be more available to you at night because their defenses will be lower. If we get together and we all have to share three good things from our day, it helps train attention on all of the positive things in our lives. And it helps pull attention away from those fears
and stories that young brains might be developing. It's very, very, it's sort of defensive too, because it's something they can take with them and remember. So three good things are, mean, my kids and I do this every night, three good things, and they know it. It's gonna happen, we have to do it, we sit on my bed.
and it can lead to great conversations, little ad hoc things that happen. So three good things are, I love dinner, my son, he loved dinner, he had a bassoon lesson, and he went on a great bike ride. Three good things in life. My daughter came in and had hers, I have mine. We make sure everyone has had their turn, and then we head to bed for bedtime.
A book. Reading time. Either together or alone. But a book is a great way to get the brain onto a different story. In fact, if you can get your kid hooked on a good book, they're excited to read the book. They can't wait to go to bed. But it pulls the brain into a different story. A song. Do you have a song that you sing? True Confessions, My Son Is 13.
I sing the same song that I sang to him. was infant. However, he does change it now because he's 13. So he beat boxes and changes the words and he's 13, but it's part of our total routine. Loving mantras.
Something that your child can repeat over and over or something you repeat regularly every night to your child. Loving mantra might be, I love you more than anything, you are my treasure, and being your mother is the best thing that ever happened to me. Something to keep their attention on reality. Music, music can be very down regulating.
you know, as long as it's the right music. You can insist on reality and set firm boundaries. So my daughter had a series of questions she used to ask me every night. One of them was, is mind control real? And I said, well, if it were real, you wouldn't be asking me this question. So, and she would say, mom, I'm like, no.
We're okay, I love you, good night. Firm, firm boundaries. Firm boundaries because you're modeling for them how to set firm boundaries with their own mind. They need your example.
All right, so staying connected. Don't be afraid to let them know what's going on. Look, you're awesome. You have a great brain. It's very imaginative and very active and now it needs to go to bed. So we have to be like, be in charge of this brain. Externalize your coach. You can give them examples of when you handle this as a kid. We were all scared at some point. Let them know they're not alone. Receive, receive, receive. Oh my gosh, I hear you.
Wow, and no, that's absolutely not possible. That's not true. But I absolutely hear how that's scary for you. So you can set a line between, like I did with my daughter last night, she of course knows, she knew it wasn't real, whatever it was she was afraid of. But I absolutely want to hear it. And I'm absolutely going to be honest about what it is that is actually happening there.
Set boundaries, be clear about what needs to happen and why. We all need sleep. What's your narrative around sleep? You must have sleep. What do you share with people or your kids about what's important about sleep? Solve, get their input. How are we going to get your runaway imagination to bed? Because this is getting really silly. And you need to go to bed. Nope, not true. mean, whatever the case is, it's
Sara Whelan (41:06)
Hmm.
Bronwyn Foley (41:09)
It's down regular, you staying regulated while they work through their dysregulation. Investigate the root cause. my gosh, I saw a meme. I saw a short TikTok video. This is why I feel so strong about social media. You can see something at 2 p.m. and it comes racing back at nine. Was there something sad? ADHD is very sensitive and interpret things.
all sorts of ways when that imagination gets a hold of it. Challenge them, invite them to meet the moment, to be the boss of their own brain and be silly. Help them laugh, help them release tension with giggles. It's just feelings about something that is fundamentally isn't real. There is this thing that I noticed with lot of parents, they wanna be more engaged than perhaps they were when they were kids.
Sara Whelan (41:46)
How?
Bronwyn Foley (42:03)
or when their parents were with them, where a lot of growing up in Gen X and some millennials, was the parents had the story and the kids had to just believe the parent's story and that was that. So there's this sort of desire to be there for kids in a different way, in a more collaborative way. But every feeling they bring us is not reflective of reality. What we can do is
help them pick and choose and investigate those feelings and subsequent stories. All right. Be your child's champion. They really need you to stand up for them. Bedtime is a great opportunity for your child as they experiment with their own self-rag and they're powerful, albeit very hungry. ADHD brain. All right, there you go.
Any questions anyone? Let me stop sharing. Hang on y'all. yeah, my content information. If you have any questions, please let me know. All right, hang on. I'm gonna exit and stop sharing.
Hang on, did I stop sharing?
Okay, good.
You can.
Sara Whelan (43:25)
Thank you very much. As you were talking, just to get people thinking of their questions, so many things you said brings me back to when my kids were young. Try to start bedtime an hour before sleep time. It's not always possible. Sports keep kids on the fields until too late, and then they come back all ramped up. So sometimes it's beyond the control of the parents and the families.
Bronwyn Foley (43:56)
Hi Sara, what are you gonna say?
Sara Whelan (43:58)
Just when I, because even as a parent, yeah, we run into that. I'm both of our girls have ADHD too. And, um, so what I try to do is bring, we always try to focus on those non-negotiables even when it's a really late night. And so, you know, already having like the no screens in the room kind of rule and some other things that we're doing that are easy and fast can be really helpful with sleep, even on those nights when it's a really extra late night and we can't do.
all the things we'd like to do. I like to think about, we're trying our best and it's not going to always, you know, but even those small things can make a huge difference with sleep. So it's easy to get.
Bronwyn Foley (44:38)
that I didn't mention dimmers. Dimmers all throughout your house are a really good strategy. And they're actually pretty easy to install. Get dimmers. They're very helpful to down, I mean, true sleep people will put their lamps on the floor. That's what their research shows them. they're like, it's artificial light has really created some unique problems for we humans and some unique opportunities.
So dimmers are important and then to your points here, yes, but here's the thing about the sporty kids. When they are exerting themselves physically, as long as you can get their heads to the pillow, they will usually knock out.
The kids I'm referring to that I have encountered actually do have in common that they're not as physically active.
And it's been a struggle to get them physical. They're more like, you know, they inquire and doing stuff like that. They're not on the lacrosse field. And that isn't for everybody.
Sara Whelan (45:40)
So.
Bronwyn Foley (45:42)
I see six comments. Any questions anyone?
Sara Whelan (45:47)
One of the questions was about magnesium, which I think you saw during the talk.
Bronwyn Foley (45:52)
I didn't see it, but I didn't talk about it. You would have to talk to your healthcare provider because they don't know for kids. For adults, I take magnesium at night. I don't know about it for kids though.
Sara Whelan (46:12)
There's a new question. Any tips for a child who refuses to sleep in their own room and insists on sleeping with parents? The age-old question.
Bronwyn Foley (46:18)
Yes. Anisha, that you? Okay. Well.
As a coach, I would start with talking to Kiddo about like how old is your little one? You're muted so I can't hear you.
That's okay. Seven, okay, okay. All right, so.
So depending, whatever your nighttime routine is, you're down regulating, but you're ready for them to move to their own bed. So,
It opens with a conversation for me. It opens for conversation about kiddo, about sleep, about age, about moving into your own bed and how can we make your bed a place you want to be and working with the kiddo to break down the steps to move into their own bed. What's good about being in your own bed. And then there's also setting a clear boundary. You need to be in your own bed.
and we are going to work with you any way we can to make it comfortable and a wonderful warm place for you.
But at seven, I don't know. I'm guessing you probably have some resistance because there's not as much pressure. The kids that I'm talking about are the preteens who don't wanna be in their parents' right? It's uncool. You wanna be in but you're scared. And your seven is a little different. So...
It might get dicey. You might have some tears. You might have some anger. But that isn't them being hurt by you. That's them relieving the stress of a transition.
So that's what can get hard, right? When they start crying and you feel terrible and, but that isn't you hurting them. That's them working through the stress of getting into their own bed.
How does that sound? Is that helpful?
Sara Whelan (48:47)
is, I mean, we've tried many times,
but there's sort of a last minute sort of panic response. A lot of it is associated with fears. that's me in those moments. It's hard to, you know,
Bronwyn Foley (48:53)
and
So that kind of gets.
So that's it. That's exactly what happens to so many parents of all age, kids of all ages. It gets you, because you don't want to hurt your baby, but you're not hurting your baby. In fact, you're teaching a level of resilience and anti-fragility that will only serve them well, and you're not hurting them. You're just giving them a really cool bed of their own. Yeah. Yes. It's that place for you, for your own regulation.
So that might be if you have a parenting partner, talking through strategies with your parenting partner as well, trying to support each other as you move this transition, move into this transition. I mean, that's off the top of my head, but I can think of it. Thank you. You're welcome.
Sara Whelan (50:06)
I think we have another the same question, but for a four year old. So it's definitely a topic for parents with children of all ages.
Bronwyn Foley (50:15)
So yeah.
It's okay to set a firm boundary because your child is safe. Your child is safe in their own bed. In fact, arguably you're all safer because you're going to get better sleep so you won't be cranky with each other. So figuring out how to set a clear boundary and have a very clear narrative about reality. I had to sleep train my son.
Twice, three times actually, because he was so sick when he was a baby. And my narrative to him was the first, I'll say the third time, because he was needed vitamin D, turns out. And we'd been holding him up all night, like until two or three in the morning, and then putting him back, because he couldn't breathe. And he was like two and a half. And he thought that was going to keep going.
And of course he got better and we like, this is not going keep going. So I put it, maybe it was a year and a half. I put him in his crib. We had the lights low and I ended up just sitting in a chair next to him while he screamed at me and cried and was hysterical and angry. And I was like, buddy, you're going to go to sleep on your own in your bed. I'm just going to sit here with you right now, but you're going to go to sleep on your own. You're going to be okay.
This is your bed. It's a great bed and it's very cozy and you are safe here. Screaming, screaming, screaming. He even asked for water at one point. I'll give him some water. Screaming, screaming, screaming. And then out of nowhere, he just said, and he laid down and went to bed. And that was it. The next night he knew exactly what was going to happen.
So I love you, you're safe, this is your bed, it's for you to sleep in and holding the line warmly and compassionately.
I mean, you know what, by my story, we had no choice. We were not going to spend his childhood holding him up just because he was crying.
Speaker 3 (52:19)
I forget it. I'm going to
Bronwyn Foley (52:21)
bed. but it is lovingly and compassionate. And also, I hear that this is kind of scary. But guess what? You're going to be okay. And you are big and strong. And these fears are not going to get the better of you. You're okay. You're going to make you can do this. I believe in you. Believe in them, because they can do it. And they might feel tremendous sense of accomplishment. I hear this is a big challenge.
And I know you can do it.
It's okay to challenge them. This is such a safe place for them to get an idea that they're awesome.
It's so safe for that's my big thing that came up when I was writing this. I was like, God, that's right. Cause I knew there was something I needed out of this topic that I hadn't quite gotten. It's that this is such a safe place to teach kids that they can do these things. They can figure this out.
They can be proud of themselves and strong on their own behalf.
It's like we don't want our kids to have any bad feelings. But they have to have bad feelings sometimes. But if we're there with them to walk through those bad feelings, then that's the parenting part.
Anything else? What time is it? I was talking and I was like, I don't know.
Sara Whelan (53:58)
We're right, we're two minutes away from an hour. So it's like exactly right on time. Wonderful. Other announcements from you, Kristen, anything that we had a couple of people put in their emails in the chat.
Some sent them just
to me. So, okay, great. I've acknowledged in some way that I got your name, entered it in.
Excellent. Talk about next month. Yes, next month. But first of all, Bronwyn thank you so much. Thank you. And this has been wonderful. I could listen and chat much longer, listen to you. And I'm very excited also because in July, Kristen herself is going to be presenting
to our group on July 15th on managing medication side effects. So RSVP join us again, I believe on a Tuesday night, 6.30 central time. So we hope you can join us again.
Bronwyn Foley (55:02)
All right.
Sara Whelan (55:03)
Thank you so much.
Bronwyn Foley (55:05)
me,
Bronwyn @ bronwynfoley.com That's my email. Otherwise, it was such a pleasure to be a part of this process. What a great, you guys have such a good chat chapter. You're so lucky. They're amazing. Yeah, indeed. Indeed.
Sara Whelan (55:22)
did record this, if it's okay with you, can include your contact information in the newsletter with the recording.
Bronwyn Foley (55:29)
would love it. Thank you. I appreciate that so much. It was great to be here with you all. Have a wonderful rest of your night. Take care.
Sara Whelan (55:37)
Thank you. Goodbye, everyone. Thank you.
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