Summary: In this conversation, Kristen Stuppy interviews Emily Kircher-Morris, a licensed professional counselor and advocate for neurodivergent individuals. Emily shares her personal experience with ADHD and discusses the importance of neurodiversity-affirming schools. They also touch on the topic of finding the right therapist for a child with ADHD and the need for individualized approaches to treatment. Emily emphasizes the importance of supporting neurodivergent individuals in finding strategies that work for them and reframing the narrative around ADHD. They also preview Emily's upcoming talk on suicidality and self-harm among neurodivergent youth.
Keywords: ADHD, neurodiversity, neurodivergent, therapy, accommodations, self-harm, suicidality
Takeaways
Neurodiversity-affirming schools are crucial for supporting neurodivergent students and creating an inclusive learning environment.
Finding the right therapist for a child with ADHD involves considering their approach, experience with ADHD, and ability to build trust with the child.
Individualized approaches to treatment, including accommodations and strategies that work for the individual, are essential for managing ADHD.
Reframing the narrative around ADHD and focusing on supporting individuals in finding strategies that work for them can help reduce stigma and improve self-esteem.
Suicidality and self-harm are significant concerns among neurodivergent youth, and it is important to be aware of the risk factors and provide support and resources.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Background
12:22 Creating Neurodiversity-Affirming Schools
19:24 Finding the Right Therapist for a Child with ADHD
25:14 Individualized Approaches to ADHD Treatment
28:54 Reframing the Narrative: Supporting Neurodivergent Individuals
30:27Addressing Suicidality and Self-Harm Among Neurodivergent Youth
AI Generated Transcript
Kristen Stuppy (00:01.234)
Hi everyone, I'm Kristen Stuppy a volunteer with the ADHDKC CHADD chapter and local board member who along with the fabulous Jeremy Didier started this podcast to highlight up and coming events for our CHADD chapter and to share ADHD topics. And today I'm so excited to be able to welcome Emily Kircher -Morris. She has been inspired by her own experiences as a neurodivergent person
and is dedicated to destigmatizing neurodiversity and supporting neurodivergent people of all ages. She started her career in education and has actually lived in Kansas City, I just learned, when she started and is now in private practice near St. Louis, Missouri as a licensed professional counselor where she specializes in supporting neurodivergent kids and adults and of course their families. She hosts the Neurodiversity Podcast, which explores psychological, educational and social needs of neurodivergent people,
and is the author of several books related to parenting and education of neurodivergent kids and teens. Her next book, Neurodiversity Affirming Schools, Transforming Practices So All Students Feel Accepted and Supported, will be released in January of 2025. And I am excited to get my hands on that when it comes out!
In September Emily will be talking about suicidality and self -harm among neurodivergent youth at our ADHDKC parent meeting on September 10th, 2024. It'll start at 6 .30. It'll be online only. And today we're gonna be talking maybe a little bit about that. And this is a topic that's triggering for some, certainly very important. And my day job is as a pediatrician. So I've seen youth and their families affected by depression and suicide, as well as negative and harmful coping skills.
So I know this discussion needs to be shared, but I also know that everyone needs to know about 988. The 988 Lifeline provides 24 -7 free, confidential support for people in distress. And it's not just for those who are suicidal. You can use their website, 988lifeline .org, or call or text 988 for prevention and crisis resources. So Emily, thank you for waiting so patiently through that really long introduction, but I am very excited for you to be here. So I would maybe just like you to start with a little bit about who you are and your background.
Emily Kircher-Morris (02:24.079)
Sure, yeah. So as you mentioned, I'm a licensed professional counselor outside of St. Louis. And I think like a lot of people who are in especially like in helping professions, we tend to go into things kind of related on some of our own life experiences. So I was actually diagnosed with ADHD when I was a kid, which for women especially was pretty rare. was actually
diagnosed with ADHD back in like 1991. So before the DSM -4 even came out, before Asperger's was even in the DSM, before you could have an autism and an ADHD diagnosis overlap, like there's so many changes that have happened since then. But I was really struggling and my mom was an educator. And so she really advocated for me and just knew something was going on. And so she took me to a neurologist and
I was diagnosed when I was in fifth grade. you know, but even with that diagnosis, even with medication that I took at the time, things were just still really hard. And so when I graduated and I went to college, I decided I really wanted to improve what I felt like was a system that wasn't working for kids like me. So I got my undergrad degree in elementary education and I taught for a while. And then actually I was also identified
placed in a gifted ed program when I was a kid. So at the time we didn't use this term, but now we do, twice exceptional where you have both of those things layered on top. So cognitive giftedness along with another diagnosis or disability. And so I actually went back and got a master's degree in gifted education, taught for a long time in gifted ed, and then really loved that social and emotional piece of working with students. So went back and got a second master's in counseling and family therapy.
worked for a while as a school counselor, and now I'm in private practice. So that's kind of been the professional trajectory. I also have three kids who are all neurodivergent. My husband's neurodivergent. We have a smattering of diagnoses floating around the house. And so it really is my passion to help people understand what different brains look like, to destigmatize the labels that go along with neurodivergence, and to help people find
Emily Kircher-Morris (04:50.489)
the supports and tools that really work for
Kristen Stuppy (04:54.088)
Now, you were very fortunate to be diagnosed, not with the term twice exceptional because 2e wasn't around as you mentioned, but having that recognized at the time that you were identified is pretty remarkable because smart people can mask very well. So if you were able to get identified.
Emily Kircher-Morris (05:00.365)
Mm -hmm.
Emily Kircher-Morris (05:18.095)
I think it just shows how much I was struggling perhaps. So yeah, yeah, totally. absolutely. So I mentioned my mom was an educator. She was actually a special educator. She worked in special education. So she kind of really knew. In order to be identified for the gifted ed program when I was growing up, you had to be referred by your teachers. And I was never the student that was going to be referred. Like my first grade teacher said, well, Emily's work is generally correct. We just have to
Kristen Stuppy (05:21.511)
But that also, I guess, speaks to people who are very bright, but also strong.
Emily Kircher-Morris (05:47.843)
dump out her desk to find it. But my mom worked in the district and so she knew how to navigate that system. So she said, I want her tested for the gifted program. So I was placed in the gifted program before I was diagnosed with ADHD. And so probably had she not done that, I wouldn't have been identified for either, most likely. And it's interesting that evolution, that process
of coming to terms with that diagnosis. I mentioned the thing about Asperger's and autism just because first of all there's just a lot of overlap between the ADHD autism and then also that gifted piece. There's just a lot of things that overlap there and I see a lot of those autistic traits in myself but I've never been given that particular diagnosis. But I think that having that diagnosis as a child was okay.
But I went for a period of time from the time that I was like in high school, really until my oldest son, who's now 16, he was diagnosed with ADHD when he was in second grade. And that was the first time I went back to my doctor and said, you know, I had this diagnosis as a kid. What do you think? Can we try some medication or whatever? But really through my 20s and early 30s, I just thought I was anxious. I thought I was depressed, like all of these different things.
the socialization aspect of that, about what ADHD looks like or doesn't look like, especially in women. Even though I had the diagnosis as a kid, I was still influenced by that, but luckily I kind of had a head start as far as realizing like, should maybe reach out and see if there's somebody, something else that might
Kristen Stuppy (07:36.52)
think that speaks a lot to parents often wonder when their child's going to be fixed or will they always need medication. And I think trying to change that message to supporting people in whatever way they need, whether it's medication or other supports, organizational tools, whatever. Because not only is it affirming to know that you have a diagnosis, it's not you that's a problem.
There's a structural change in the brain that makes things different for you. But with proper supports, you can succeed. You can do wonderful things.
Emily Kircher-Morris (08:11.851)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, and I think, so we do assessments at our office, know, psychological assessments to look for learning disabilities, autism, ADHD, all of those different types of things. And we do our feedback sessions. And recently there was a parent who we were talking to and their child was relatively young, you know, first grade, second grade, something like that. you know, one of the parents was asking, well, if we get ahead of this, can we, you know, basically
make it so that it doesn't impact them later on down the line. And the clinical psychologist that we work with, we collaborate with and he did a great job of just really helping the parents kind of understand like, yes, and this is going to be something that's going to probably impact your child throughout their life in various levels in various ways. It's always better to be proactive and to find this out so that they can learn more about themselves so that they can figure out the tools that work for them.
but recognize that the way that the systems are currently set up often don't work for ADHD brains. I always laugh a little bit to myself when I come across somebody who says, yeah, you I had ADHD when I was a kid, but I don't have it anymore. And I'm like, well, and what I think that speaks to though, more than anything is the fact that you have an ADHD brain that didn't fit in the school setting.
And when you graduated, were able to choose something, you did something different. You found an environment, a setting that worked for you, or you found accommodations and strategies that worked for you to organize the things in a way that you hadn't. So it's not that you aren't ADHD any longer, but you've managed to find an environment that is effective in mitigating the negative impacts of that, which is awesome. That's kind of what we want for everybody. But I always, you know, I always am a little
I don't know what the word is I'm looking for. Maybe concerned when people say that because I feel like that's one of the myths of ADHD is that you can only have it as a kid, you grow out of it, or even worse, that's not even a real thing, right? Like that's something that's made
Kristen Stuppy (10:28.586)
I know so many adults who are in therapy for years because they have anxiety, depression, something, and it just never gets better. And sometimes I'll just ask a parent that I'm seeing their child for ADHD and knowing that they're struggling with whatever aspects of things. Hey, why don't you go talk to your physician or counselor about ADHD? See if that's something, because if that's the underlying issue, it is so treatable.
Emily Kircher-Morris (10:55.917)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, the difference, I'm going to be very honest, the difference that going back on medication has made in my life for me is immeasurable. You know, I still deal with depression, you know, very honest about that, but primarily my anxiety is mostly gone unless there's something, you know, a high pressure, something going on in my life, but that's normal. That's
Kristen Stuppy (10:57.234)
things fall into place.
Emily Kircher-Morris (11:25.263)
And not that everybody has to try medication. That's not the right solution for everybody. But I wonder how different my life would have been if I hadn't talked myself out of that diagnosis when I was in my late teens and early 20s. Like, no, I don't think that's really accurate.
Kristen Stuppy (11:49.47)
But you did have some of those formative years with proper treatment, which probably did help.
Emily Kircher-Morris (11:52.855)
Right, yes. I mean, it was treatment. don't know, proper treatment. We've evolved a lot. I I had medication. There were no accommodations, really. mean, the only accommodation I ever really got in school was that I got to carry a behavior chart around with me and have my teachers sign off on it. The only thing that did was teach me how to forge my teacher's was so, so I mean, yes, yes. I had more than most people my age, almost anybody. mean, I had a name for what was going on.
I had medication. I had the ability at least to tell my teachers like, I forgot my homework. It's because I didn't get my medicine. I mean, did I do that for sure? But but also we still have so far to go. We've come a really long way and we still have so far to
Kristen Stuppy (12:42.334)
So I'm excited to see your book, because...
Emily Kircher-Morris (12:44.437)
Yeah, I'm so excited for it. My co -author and I, Amanda Morin, co -wrote it with me and it really is a paradigm shift. We have each written previous books, but this book about creating neurodiversity affirming schools, there's not a lot out there on that topic. So we really were creating this kind of from scratch. I mean, there's some research out there, like, so we pulled in the research where it was appropriate.
But there's no tried and true like, well, this is what you do. So we're really at the very edge and the forefront of kind of this movement and moving this into the schools. so, yeah, hopefully it will move that conversation forward to help teachers really understand what does a neurodiversity -affirming classroom look like. additionally, not only neurodiversity -affirming,
doesn't necessarily mean that it's only good for neurodivergent students. It's good for all students. And that's the thing that people have to understand that this isn't just like special treatment for some students. It's a strategy or a framework that provides what all students need just based on learner variability.
Kristen Stuppy (14:03.55)
Right. I think that is fantastic. It hasn't been that long since I've heard of kids who have to stay in from recess because they didn't finish their work. And that is the absolute worst that a teacher could do for a student who needs to move. So there's a lot of
Emily Kircher-Morris (14:12.441)
That was me all the time.
Emily Kircher-Morris (14:18.223)
Yeah, yeah, that's okay. I just talked to whoever else was in there and then, or zoned out and thought about whatever it was like. It was so ineffective. And I just looked back and I'm like, that's, think, I have this sense of logic, I guess. And I just looked back and I'm like, that literally made no sense. Like why, why was that what we did? I mean, another example for that is, and this is hard. So my kids are 16, 14 and nine.
And again, lots of impulsiveness, lots of all of those classic types of things that you see in neurodivergent and ADHD brains. what is, know, sometimes I talk to parents and they're like, well, we took away their PlayStation for a month and a half because whatever. I'm like, that's fine if that's the consequence that you want. But you also have to realize.
What is the goal of a consequence? The goal of a consequence is to help somebody learn how to modify their behavior, you know, to to manage a situation or an event more effectively. And whether you take that PlayStation away for a week or six, six, six weeks or whatever, that's not really going to solve the problem. It might give you some temporary relief like it might temporary, but it doesn't really
fix the problem in the long term. And that's part of the paradigm shift that we really have to see moving away from that just behaviorist approach, especially for ADHD brains, because I always think, you know, schools are so behaviorally based in so many ways, and they have so many systems in place for, you know, consequences, rewards, punish, like all of these different, different things. And what I always feel like
Those systems are in place for the kids who struggle with managing their behavior. And yet the kids who struggle with managing their behavior are the ones who are at least likely to respond to that type of a system. And so the kids who more in the neuro normative population, they don't need that system. You could probably just go to them and say, hey, we need to settle down. We need to whatever. And they could do that. And the kids who are neurodivergent get this message. I'm always in trouble. I'm always in trouble. I'm always in
Kristen Stuppy (16:27.358)
Great.
Emily Kircher-Morris (16:44.243)
And again, it doesn't fix what people see outwardly as the problem.
Kristen Stuppy (16:50.494)
And there is some research -based things that parents can do. I know that right now, parent -child interaction therapies and similar behavior modification programs can be very effective. I look back to when I was a younger parent and my daughter was struggling and we took her to therapists and I always joke that she fired more therapists than probably are in town still. She never liked them, she never clicked. But the things that they had us do were not good for her brain.
Emily Kircher-Morris (16:59.596)
Mm -hmm.
Emily Kircher-Morris (17:13.835)
Yeah.
Kristen Stuppy (17:20.19)
The delay in some of the things that we were supposed to do at home in the evenings based on what happened at school, were never going to be effective. And it's so obvious now. And yet when we were going through these things, they just told us, things are going to get worse before they get better. We know this happens. And so we played along with it and paid them for this advice. So I guess a question, and this is maybe not your area of expertise, but when parents are looking for a therapist,
Emily Kircher-Morris (17:29.677)
Mm -hmm.
Kristen Stuppy (17:50.482)
How do they find one that is right for their child if their child does have ADHD, whether or not maybe they're diagnosed with the traits of ADHD?
Emily Kircher-Morris (17:57.175)
Yeah, I would, I would start by, well, okay, a couple of things. First of all, there is a therapist out there who's a good fit for your kid, but finding a good therapist is a little bit like dating and you, it is okay for you to call and ask for a consultation, to talk to them first, to go in for an appointment. And if it doesn't feel right to find somebody else, because primarily if you're, if you, or really your child don't have
a solid relationship and trust with that clinician, you're going nowhere and you're getting there fast. Like there's just not gonna be that progress that you want to see without that. So that being said, some other questions that you might ask are specifically about how do they work with ADHD kids? What type, like are they primarily doing talk therapy and asking a child to sit and converse back and forth?
Or do they have play therapy techniques that they integrate? They don't necessarily have to be a play therapist because I know those can be few and far between, but something that's more active. How do you engage with the kids? How do they use psychoeducation as far as skill building goes? And if they tell you, this is my opinion, but it's my professional opinion, if they tell you that they use CBT, I
question that because while that might be a component of what you're doing, you are not going to think your way out of ADHD. And that's primarily what CBT does is cognitive behavioral therapy, where you're reframing your thoughts. And if it was just a matter of reframing your thoughts, you would do that. Cognitive behavioral therapy is very effective for other types of needs, anxiety, depression, I feel like are good examples where it can be really helpful.
But I have found that with ADHD, it has to be something more. find that neurodiversity -affirming practitioners are much more focused on accommodations, but not just accommodations that the parents have to make, but how can the child be responsible and independent in accessing those accommodations? So for example, in my own life, I get people who message me all the
Emily Kircher-Morris (20:21.625)
They stopped me the hallway at the office. They stopped me in conferences and talked to me. They messaged me on Facebook, on Instagram, on all these different places, whatever it might be. They text me sometimes, you know, and I can't keep track of all of that. What works for me is for them to email me. If they email me, I'll get back to them. So the accommodation that I request in those moments is can you email me? That's great. Someone emailed me the other day from LinkedIn. They wanted me to be on a podcast.
I'm happy to do that. Will you please email this to me? Because I will not remember to come back to this. That's not a heavy lift for them, but it takes a lot off of my plate for trying to manage all of those things. So when I'm talking about accommodations, brainstorming with your child, what works for them and how can they be the ones that are implementing it? Those are the best types of strategies as opposed to you need to really focus. And you need to try harder.
Kristen Stuppy (21:19.968)
Never worked.
Emily Kircher-Morris (21:20.079)
It's like if that works, we would have solved this a long time ago. So those might be some things that you look for when you're talking to clinicians to really kind of see what their experience is and how they approach those types of problems. And that can inform you as you try to find somebody who's a good
Kristen Stuppy (21:38.942)
And of course the CBT could be very effective if the person also has ADHD with anxiety, depression, other things.
Emily Kircher-Morris (21:44.855)
Right. Yeah, well, and I think sometimes, you know, I feel like there some of those methodologies that get thrown around as like, because they're what people know. And I'll be honest, and you're a physician, know, but it's like, think sometimes physicians, they know some things, it's like, this is the thing, this is the one. that's not always their area of expertise. that's, you know, and so, and that's,
Another thing I think as far as providing neurodiversity affirming care is right. Like how do we get the medical community really to see this sometimes from some different angles? You will find that most clinicians use some level of CBT in their practice in some ways. Like I just feel like that's a very straightforward, direct process for helping people manage uncomfortable emotions. it shouldn't necessarily, well, I don't wanna say
It may not be the most effective thing if it's the only thing that's being integrated.
Kristen Stuppy (22:50.398)
It's not an effective treatment for ADHD. It is effective for many other things. I think it'd be a
Emily Kircher-Morris (22:54.807)
Yes. Although, yes, although depending on who you ask, they might say, well, you should find a CBT therapist for really anything, you know, or, you know, there are, sure there are some families out there who maybe have kids who, have a co -occurring diagnosis of autism and ABA is another one that you hear thrown around. And I am not a proponent for ABA therapy. The, the autistic community of adults who have experienced ABA therapy
disclosed that it was traumatizing for them in many ways. But I think also, I feel like there's no conversation that you can have without, that doesn't include some nuance. And I do think that there are some situations where ABA can be effective for some children, but I think that's pretty rare. It's kind of like anything, anytime you're doing any sort of medical treatment, you weigh out the benefits and the drawbacks for that individual.
The goal of therapy, whether it's CBT, ABA, whatever it is for a neurodivergent person should not be to make them look not neurodivergent. The goal should be to help them get what they want and what they need in a way that works for them. And so that's kind of a shift. anytime there's a goal of doing these things, it's not prescriptive. It's not like, we have this label, so we do this thing. It's just like medications.
If you're doing, there's so many different types of medications, you've got to find the one that works for you. And that's kind of the same thing when we're talking about therapeutic approaches.
Kristen Stuppy (24:33.182)
Right, but I love your point to not trying to make the person normal, kind of make their brain work for the situation and do the things they need it to do with the proper supports.
Emily Kircher-Morris (24:46.455)
I always talk about working with a client's brain instead of against it. So here's a quick example that I think maybe might resonate with families. I have a client who is college age and he's really hard on himself, just very hard on himself when he struggles with waiting until the last minute. That task initiation is always really, really difficult for him. And so he waits till the last minute.
He gets his stuff turned in usually most of the time, but he has to have that sense of urgency. That sense of urgency is really one of the few things that can kind of give him that kick to get started. He's an adult, he's a young adult, but what I always tell him is like, listen, for your entire life, people have been trying to get you to start things way early. That's not working for you.
you need to have some self -compassion. It's okay for that not to work for you. What I see you doing is looking at your work schedule, looking at the due dates and recognizing I'm gonna need to leave this time on Wednesday evening to get this stuff done because it's due by Wednesday at midnight or whatever it is. But if that works for you, that's okay. Like there's nothing wrong about that in and of itself. Especially if you're,
If you're getting it turned in and you are satisfied with those grades that you're earning, allow that to happen as opposed to constantly trying to change that piece of what is, it doesn't come naturally.
Kristen Stuppy (26:29.874)
Right. Well, still maybe watching the extra stress that that leads to can lead to more anxiety, feelings of low self -esteem from not being like everybody else able to get it done.
Emily Kircher-Morris (26:35.737)
Totally, yeah, yes, right.
Emily Kircher-Morris (26:44.353)
It's a very individualized situation for sure. I think in that particular scenario that I was discussing, the biggest thing that's causing the anxiety is the frustration with himself about it, which is maybe not necessary. Right, correct, correct. Yes, yeah, that would actually, that would be the thing that would reduce his stress more than anything.
Kristen Stuppy (27:03.676)
because he feels like he's not living up to what other people want him to do. Yeah. And if he just owns it, that would decrease his anxiety.
Emily Kircher-Morris (27:13.083)
And so, but that's exactly what I mean though. It's like, what does that person want or need? Like what's going to help that person? If there's somebody, so I talked to somebody else recently as well and she has some tasks to do with an organization that she's involved with and she's been procrastinating on them. And now she has a sense of like guilt and shame that she's been procrastinating, but she still needs to get it done. But now that's like impeding her ability to get started.
on those things. with her, that particular strategy, though, that I was talking about with that other client, would not work. Like, that's not her style. That's not who she is. So we really had to reframe that in a different way and come up with a plan so that she could get things done. But I think being flexible about what those possible solutions might be, not thinking that there's a right way or a wrong way to do things, like, those are the things that we need
shift in our thinking as parents, as clinicians, as educators, whatever that might be, as we're supporting the young ADHD people in our lives because what's tried and true doesn't always work for neurodivergent brains.
Kristen Stuppy (28:23.72)
Right. And these poor kids are hearing so many messages all the time about how they're failing to live up to expectations and offering different supports and different ways that they can do things outside the box thinking and more like adults who thrive with their ADHD because they can do all of these wonderful things with their brains differently. Having teachers recognize that and parents recognize that and letting them take a little ownership of things and doing it a little differently. Do you think that might help some of the
known problems with low self -esteem, increased risks of anxiety, depression, all
Emily Kircher-Morris (28:57.645)
Right, right, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's really about that, just looking at it from all the different angles. I often, when I have clients come in for the first time, I think sometimes they're waiting for me to just tell them the thing to do that's gonna fix the problem. And I always say, like, I don't have the solution that's going to work for you,
I have a lot of solutions that I've seen other people try that have worked with varying success. I'm also very good at brainstorming and coming up with new and different ways that might work in this situation. And that's the process that we're going to go through through therapy. going to brainstorm, we're going to try things, we're going to see what works. How can we modify things that will have the most impact on your day -to -day life and help you live the life that you feel good about?
Kristen Stuppy (29:50.147)
Do you have anything that you want to say to introduce what you're going to be talking about in September?
Emily Kircher-Morris (29:57.123)
Sure, yeah. So we'll be talking about suicidality and self -injury, non -suicidal self -injury. We're going to talk about some of the risk factors that we see in ADHDers, like what specifically are those things that can impact how they respond and can lead to some of those feelings of suicidality and self -injury. We're also going to then just talk about what we can do to
to help mitigate those? What do we need to be on the lookout for? What do we, you know, how do we support kids? Because, you know, the statistics are out there and being neurodivergent, you know, having a diagnosis of ADHD is in and of itself a risk factor for increased suicidality and self -injury. And that's not to scare anybody. It's just what it is. And so how do we make sure that we're on the lookout?
and can support those that we love around us.
Kristen Stuppy (31:02.078)
think it will be a fantastic conversation. I am very excited that you're going to be giving this talk to the ADHDKC parent meeting September 10th, online only, 6 .30 to 7 .30. And I'm sure that everyone will come out with a wealth of knowledge.
Emily Kircher-Morris (31:21.411)
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it as
Kristen Stuppy (31:24.978)
Great, any final thoughts at all?
Emily Kircher-Morris (31:27.617)
No, I mean, if anyone wants to check out the Neurodiversity podcast, if you're podcast listener, check it out. But hopefully I'll be able to meet you, quote unquote, at our event in September.
Kristen Stuppy (31:40.752)
I think it will be a great evening. Thank you very much for joining me today as well. And if anyone does have questions, they can always reach out to ADHDKC.org. Thank you very much.
Emily Kircher-Morris (31:53.369)
Thanks, Kristen.
Get to know ADHDKC's speaker, Emily Kircher-Morris